Wow.. where to start....
1. When I said you haven't done this then, I was referring to the forte. Obviously if you bought an A8 with a B&O system, a set of $200 speakers isn't going to be any better.
>>>You are right, I have never done a system swap on a Forte. So? The basic preparation principles apply regardless - prep work is key!
2. The OP's original questions about not liking the Forte's sound has absolutely nothing to do with anythign you just mentioned. He wanted to know if buying new speakers will improve the sound, and they definitely will if the right product is chosen.
>>> the right product is only part of the equation. It also requires the right prep work. You can buy the best paint in the world but if you dont prepare the surface the paint won't look good. Same goes for audio.
3. Everything you just mentioned has nothing to do with your original argument which is related to the quality of the components in the Forte. True the HU is fine, however the speakers can be vastly improved with a modest amount of money. Maybe one day, you may just open your doors and look at what's in there. You have a plastic domed tweeter found in most $30 bookshelf stereos, which is high passed with a 10 cent capacitor.
>>what arguement? lol...don't get yourself all twisted up in a knot-its just a car forum. Reeeelaaaaaaaaxxxx and for the record the speakers in the Forte are actually quite good considering the price of the car!
4. The OP's original post has nothing to do with BASS (not base) and therefore the logical thing to swap is the components and not add a sub for his/her listening preference.
>>>Ok I typed that wrong - my bad. I promise not to do that again.
5. Your arguments regarding deadening the doors/trunk/roof while valid are only necessary when you exceed the stock stereos 30W max capabilities.... unless you crank the bass after adding a much better set of components .
again with the arguements? what arguement? lol...don't get yourself all twisted up in a knot-its just a car forum. Reeeelaaaaaaaaxxxx
6. Thank you for arguing my points exactly, see posts 14 and 19. Deadening the doors is crucial at higher volumes / higher bass levels when you have swapped out to better components. The stock one's just can't hit that hard without distorting so you aren't hearing an un-deadened vehicle, you are hearing the speakers "farting" and the amp clipping.
>>> Hey we agree on this!
7. There are tons of vehicles on the road (for much more money of course) that come pre-deadened with the same materials we use and DIY installers. Dynamat, Raamat, B-Quiet, Hushmat, and others already have contracts with the major high-end manufacturers. Therefore, some of these vehicles do not require any deadening at all with stock speakers, or mid-level aftermarket speakers.
>>>true!
8. Mediochre results is achievable with the S-series speakers the OP was original thinking about buying, the R-series will offer substantial results over the stock speakers.
>>>
Substantial results? lol...I don't think so.
of course quality is subjective, but ALL of my guidance is from experience in a FORTE. And since I've had mine since last MAY (first forte sold in Toronto second in Canada) and have done extensive comparisons with stock Fortes and their owners through all 4 phases of my upgrades, I think I have WAY more experience in this situation than you do.
>>>I agree..you do have more experience with a Forte. And your opinions and contributions to the forum is greatly appreciated!
You have so many opinions on everyone else's choices here on the forums, and in this case especially, it's incredibly obvious that your opinions IN THIS CASE are unfounded and without any real knowledge on the subject. Sure you may have stripped a car down to bare-bones and matted the entire vehicle... or maybe you didnt and simply visited any one of the sound-deadening sites that show pictures and tutorials of the entire process.
>>> We all have opinions! That's why forums are so nice...everybody has an opinion and you can read all the different opinions. If everybody simply agreed on everything- then life would be boring.
9. You simply do not have the experience in a FORTE that I do.I've seen your opinions on other issues on these forums and I won't argue in their favour, but I will in this thread as it's "my forte."
>>> I agree 100% I don't have the experience in a Forte that you have.
I can tell you everywhere from front to back, (Save the floor as I haven't done mine yet) where there exists a need for deadening, and whether it's practical or not to do so.
>>> uhhmm ok! I am glad you can.
Since this thread and the OP's original questions were very subjective in nature, I answered them the best I could with the sh1t-ton of experience I have with the Forte and the Forte alone.
>> and we appreciate that.
To everyone's credit, the experience I offer is not just from my Forte but also other users that I have spent time with in-person who have done upgrades themselves and we've compared all the results together... so it's not just my experience that I bring here, it's others.
>>again...we appreciate the experience and expertise you lend.
Mike, you weren't around back in the early days of the original Forte forums where a number of us pioneers did these modifications and shared them with each other and the world.
>>>true I wasn't around in the early days. My bad.
If you browse
Kia-Forums.com :: Kia Enthusiast Forums and go to the forte forums, you'll see our discussions, our build logs, pictures etc. You'll also read my rants on the various intricacies of the forte and it's build quality.
>>>no need to rant...its just a car forum. And the build quality is quite good!
Again, the first thing I changed, as well as others, were the stock speakers, and the gains to the average listener were great but to an experienced listener were huge. I paid $500+ dollars the first time I changed the speakers and I've never looked back.
>>> cool!
10. I haven't even begun to chat about harmonics.... Deadening doesnt change the sub's output, it reduces the reverberation and reduces rattle and especially harmonics. Kia fortes are like tuning forks when you start putting some real power through the speakers. These rattles also do not just exist in bass tones, but in midbass and mids as well. Hence the lack of recommendation for deadening to the OP who said they wished they had better performance in other ranges, and he's not planning on adding an amp just yet. As for DJ, if he wants to get the performance he will have to do some deadening to tighten up the sound. Since he listens to mostly Hard Dance, the resonances and harmonic resonances in the forte without any deadening will definitely annoy-the-crap-outta-him.
>>>agreed!
If you played a simple test-tone sweep from 20-20K you'll really notice every little piece of metal and plastic in the car that finds it's own frequency to hum at. Of course these are their resonant frequencies, however everything will also have harmonic resonant frequencies as well.
>>>agreed!
Let's just say this however.... your car only has one resonant frequency, say 5000Hz. So imagine playing music and hitting a 5000hz tuning fork and recording it. PLay this back and obviously the 5000hz tuning fork is going to be much louder, especially when instruments that hit 5000hz add to this frequency. Now how does one fix this? with an EQ. You pull down 5K to make 5K tones less audible resulting in a more-even spectrum. This brings me to my next point.
You can spend about $1000 and replace the head unit with an Alpine product called Imprint. Using their mic and test cd, the car will automatically EQ/time align etc... itself. You just set the volume know to the setting you most use when listening and let 'er go. You'll notice that all your rattles, hums, buzzes etc are nearly all gone. This goes to show you that deadening doesn't solve everything or isn't needed in some cases as well. Other products on the market achieve this as well, and for about $200 for an EQ and $200 for a home-made RTA you can achieve this yourself.... again however, this requires amps and active crossovers.
>>agreed!
Long story short, Mike, maybe just sit back and let people who know what they are talking about in these specific situations address other's concerns... or go out there and do the research yourself rather than comparing your last few installs to this one. A hummer is goign to react different than a Yaris... a M5 is going to react differently than a Cobalt. Forte is going to react like a Forte. So, how about gaining some experience to help lend some credence to your statements.
>>> so nobody else can have an opinion..just you..
B&O is by far not the best product on the market.... why do you think these R8's don't drive stock to a car audio SQ competition? Sure they sound nice, are well engineered and have clever gimmicks...but.....
>>> I only said 'For the recored Bang and Olufsen probably makes the best sound system today.' - go re-read my text. Why can't i have an opinion?? why is only YOU are allowed to have one.
Nobody in the pro-car-audio world will tell you adding 13 discrete channels of output or 13 speakers will sound better than 2.
Yes B&O makes fantastic home products, but none of them have 13 discrete channels, or point sources... it's absolutely absurd. Addid all of those point sources requires an incredbile amount of DSP to do right, JUST to prevent tired-ear syndrome.
B&O have capitalized on the fact that their speakers are bought by Ashton Martin and high-end Audi/Mercedes customers. It has nothing to do with the quality of their car audio.
>>>Well B&O seems to get a ton of respect in the audio world. The "Audio Critic' gives B&O rave reviews. I guess everybody elses opinion of B&O are wrong too.
A 180 degree tweeter? In a car that has glass windows, oil-product based interior trim? Are you kidding me? The amount of reflective surfaces in cars makes this idea the most ridiculous (if it didnt have 5 other point sources per side of sound to compensate)
>>> huh? what you talking about Wilis?
No doubt it sounds good, but it won't even come close to a properly built system in a Honda Fit, that wouldn't even cost 1/8 th the price.
Your second post for the most part was true but wasn't nescessary to the OP's original needs, but doesn't address the idiotic comments in your first post about everything being pretty much the same.
>>> hey its my opinion.
Speakers: Forte's are not the same as mid-level car audio and are still below entry level car audio.
HU: While great sounding, can be improved but it will cost a lot of money to do so, and only the most picky ears will hear it for the most part. The quality however is not the same when it comes to something as simple as the internal crossovers/outputs.
Sources: Everything above is only going to sound as good as where it came from. Roknrolr got a little demonstration about how the quality of your MP3 will make a huge difference. And when you amplify a poor-quality mp3, it sounds far worse. Maybe try addressing that issue rather than blanket stating digital MP3's blah blah blah in one of your other posts.
To everyone else in this thread, I really wish this side of me didn't need to come out, but Mr. Microsoft tends to argue rather than be objective here, and in some cases, doesn't really have the experience to back up what he "blanket-states."
MAKE IT LOOK NICE NOT RICE
c00kiMunster
Please don't tell me that I HAVE to get an amp to fix the head unit. I really hope that's not the case. I don't need anything fancy. I just want to be able to utilize my speakers. Thanks!
