What temperature do you think the oil is when you switch the car off? 5W-30 is the same thickness at operating temperature as 10W-30. If you want more 'cling' you'll need to move up to 5W-40. And you're wrong about which builds pressure more quickly. Thinner oil, when cold, flows faster.
What temperature do you think the oil is when you switch the car off? 5W-30 is the same thickness at operating temperature as 10W-30. If you want more 'cling' you'll need to move up to 5W-40. And you're wrong about which builds pressure more quickly. Thinner oil, when cold, flows faster.
How oil clings to engine parts after the engine is turned off and oil has drained back into the crankcase has very little to do with temperature. The point is that a thicker oil provides a thicker film on engine parts while operating AND while sitting...which helps on oil starved startup. 10w is thicker than 5w at cold temp. Ergo, it will cling to engine parts better between engine operation. This is a no-brainer.
You're wrong about a thinner oil building pressure more quickly. Oil flow and oil pressure are 2 different things. Please research this if you still don't agree.
Basically, you want an adequate film of oil to lubricate and protect engine parts. You also need something thicker than 20W at high operating temps.
5w-30 is a good choice, I use it all the time. But I am now switching to 10w-30 due partly to the warmer climate I live in and also for a more quiet engine during warmup, and less viscosity shear from a 10w-30 compared to a 5w-30.
Last edited by Silver2010; 02-16-2010 at 03:24 PM.
You're saying the oil is cold when you shut off the engine, which of course is incorrect. If is it cold, then 10W-30 will cling better than 5W-30. The fact that the oil is hot at shutdown means that both oils will drain at the same rate. Thicker oil does provide a thicker film on engine parts, but a 10W-30 and a 5W-30 will cling at the same rate because you're talking about OPERATING TEMPERATURE, not STARTUP TEMPATURE. 10W-40 flows slower than 5W-30 when cold. They flow (and cling) at the same rate when hot. If you are in the habit of starting your engine and shutting it right back off, yes...you'll have more cling from a thicker oil. But I sincerely hope you're not doing that. Once the oil has reached operating temperatures, they drain at the same rate if they are both Xw-30.
To say that cold oil and hot oil drains into the crankcase at the same rate is also false..otherwise your claim that cold oil clings better to engine parts has no merit.
Use what you like....just know that your theories are backward.
You're saying the oil is cold when you shut off the engine, which of course is incorrect. If is it cold, then 10W-30 will cling better than 5W-30. The fact that the oil is hot at shutdown means that both oils will drain at the same rate. Thicker oil does provide a thicker film on engine parts, but a 10W-30 and a 5W-30 will cling at the same rate because you're talking about OPERATING TEMPERATURE, not STARTUP TEMPATURE. 10W-40 flows slower than 5W-30 when cold. They flow (and cling) at the same rate when hot. If you are in the habit of starting your engine and shutting it right back off, yes...you'll have more cling from a thicker oil. But I sincerely hope you're not doing that. Once the oil has reached operating temperatures, they drain at the same rate if they are both Xw-30.
To say that cold oil and hot oil drains into the crankcase at the same rate is also false..otherwise your claim that cold oil clings better to engine parts has no merit.
Use what you like....just know that your theories are backward.
I said no such thing. Both 30W's will cling to the engine parts the same after a hot shutdown, in theory. But you should be aware that a 5w-30 will have higher viscosity shear than a 10w-30, due to more polymer additives used to maintain a larger spread. In essence, it has less base oil/more additives. So, even hot, 10w-30 will likely be thicker than 5w-30 over time(once shear has occured) and will therefore cling better to engine parts. Also, for you to guess at what exact viscosity an oil may have reached on any shutdown is foolish.
10w-30 flows at -33. But, if you have such an adversion to using 10w-30 instead of 5w-30, than by all means, continue with that misconception. It makes no difference to me.
You're saying the oil is cold when you shut off the engine, which of course is incorrect. If is it cold, then 10W-30 will cling better than 5W-30. The fact that the oil is hot at shutdown means that both oils will drain at the same rate. Thicker oil does provide a thicker film on engine parts, but a 10W-30 and a 5W-30 will cling at the same rate because you're talking about OPERATING TEMPERATURE, not STARTUP TEMPATURE. 10W-40 flows slower than 5W-30 when cold. They flow (and cling) at the same rate when hot. If you are in the habit of starting your engine and shutting it right back off, yes...you'll have more cling from a thicker oil. But I sincerely hope you're not doing that. Once the oil has reached operating temperatures, they drain at the same rate if they are both Xw-30.
To say that cold oil and hot oil drains into the crankcase at the same rate is also false..otherwise your claim that cold oil clings better to engine parts has no merit.
Use what you like....just know that your theories are backward.
BTW, whatever oil is left on engine parts between starts after draining off, the 10w will provide a thicker lubricating film on restart then the 5w. Or do you disagree with that too?
Why don't you try Mobil 1 10w-30 instead of Mobil 1 5w-30, see if that quiets things down?
I've already dealt with professionals on this subject and am using an appropriate oil for the climate I'm in. It's a well known industry fact that 5W-xx oils flow better at startup than 10W-xx. What little noise I have isn't an issue for me, because it's the valve clearance that's making the noise, and is inherent to this engine. A 10W-30 oil wouldn't silence it any more than a 5W-30 would, especially since I'm using synthetic.
Please consult a professional on this subject before continuing to lead people on this forum astray. I assure you that no professional, nor a technician at your local Kia dealership will be suggesting a 10W-xx oil over a 5W-xx oil for cold starts and 'cling', as you call it. 10W oils went the way of the dinosaurs in the 1980's and at best is suited for lawnmowers.
If you look in the manual it even tells what oil is best for what temps I personally would just stick with the 5W-20 that it recommends in the manual even tough it states you can use 5W-30 and 10W-30 depending on temps. I am going to use 5W-20 Castrol Syntec (Full Synthetic) once I reach my 1000 mile break in. I do have a concern if anyone has any ideas...
I only have 170 miles on the vehicle but I'm getting a serious ticking in the engine thwt sounds like the lifters are sticking? Is the common on the 6spds for the break in or is there a serious issue here? I haven't red lined the car at all and I stay under 2500 rpm's for the most part but I do do a lot of stop and go through the city here.. Any ideas? KIA Tech? Anyone? I wanna make sure there is no bigger issue here..
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2012 Hyundai Veloster Marathon Blue... Mods to come...
Last edited by OrangeCrush; 02-16-2010 at 11:09 PM.
If you look in the manual it even tells what oil is best for what temps I personally would just stick with the 5W-20 that it recommends in the manual, I personally am going to use 5W-20 Castrol Syntec (Full Synthetic) once I reach my 1000 mile break in. I do have a concern if anyone has any ideas...
I only have 170 miles on the vehicle but I'm getting a serious ticking in the engine thwt sounds like the lifters are sticking? Is the common on the 6spds for the break in or is there a serious issue here? I haven't red lined the car at all and I stay under 2500 rpm's for the most part but I do do a lot of stop and go through the city here.. Any ideas? KIA Tech? Anyone? I wanna make sure there is no bigger issue here..
Only time will tell if there is a bigger issue, but I would chalk it up to a noisy valve train and move on.
I've already dealt with professionals on this subject and am using an appropriate oil for the climate I'm in. It's a well known industry fact that 5W-xx oils flow better at startup than 10W-xx. What little noise I have isn't an issue for me, because it's the valve clearance that's making the noise, and is inherent to this engine. A 10W-30 oil wouldn't silence it any more than a 5W-30 would, especially since I'm using synthetic.
Please consult a professional on this subject before continuing to lead people on this forum astray. I assure you that no professional, nor a technician at your local Kia dealership will be suggesting a 10W-xx oil over a 5W-xx oil for cold starts and 'cling', as you call it. 10W oils went the way of the dinosaurs in the 1980's and at best is suited for lawnmowers.
LOL. you're dreaming. And ditto on "consulting a professional before leading people astray here". Did you not incorrectly say that oil flow and oil pressure are the same thing?
If oil remaining to coat engine parts between starts was unimportant, as you claim, then modern oils wouldn't have additives that enhance that very characteristic. You might want to look into that also.
Oh, and several Kia dealers in my area use a 10w-30 for their oil changes. I've contacted several. Imagine that! They aren't servicing lawnmowers there, LOL!
If you look in the manual it even tells what oil is best for what temps I personally would just stick with the 5W-20 that it recommends in the manual, I personally am going to use 5W-20 Castrol Syntec (Full Synthetic) once I reach my 1000 mile break in. I do have a concern if anyone has any ideas...
I only have 170 miles on the vehicle but I'm getting a serious ticking in the engine thwt sounds like the lifters are sticking? Is the common on the 6spds for the break in or is there a serious issue here? I haven't red lined the car at all and I stay under 2500 rpm's for the most part but I do do a lot of stop and go through the city here.. Any ideas? KIA Tech? Anyone? I wanna make sure there is no bigger issue here..
Well, the recommend of 5w-20 is for max fuel efficinecy. I believe there's even a notation in the manual stating that. I'm not afraid to use 5w-20, but I feel that 30w offers more protection, especially at higher temps and/or severe operating conditions. The question should be whether you want to protect your engine or eke out another .2% gas mileage...which can be obliterated anyway due to a number of different variables.
As for the lifter ticking, mine had it from day one. If it's there intermittantly at warm idle, then you have the same noise I have. And several other people here and on other Kia forums. I asked around after I got my car. That's one reason I'm considering trying different oil weights, although it may not correct the problem. Who knows?
^^^ Ya but it stays all the time. The tick is there even if I've been driving for an hour or ten minutes. I also let it warm up for at least 10-15 minutes beforehand as well... that's why I figured I'd ask. I've been told that changing the oil might help the noise but I know I shouldn't change it until after the break in period? Any suggestions?
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2012 Hyundai Veloster Marathon Blue... Mods to come...
I've already dealt with professionals on this subject and am using an appropriate oil for the climate I'm in. It's a well known industry fact that 5W-xx oils flow better at startup than 10W-xx. What little noise I have isn't an issue for me, because it's the valve clearance that's making the noise, and is inherent to this engine. A 10W-30 oil wouldn't silence it any more than a 5W-30 would, especially since I'm using synthetic.
Please consult a professional on this subject before continuing to lead people on this forum astray. I assure you that no professional, nor a technician at your local Kia dealership will be suggesting a 10W-xx oil over a 5W-xx oil for cold starts and 'cling', as you call it. 10W oils went the way of the dinosaurs in the 1980's and at best is suited for lawnmowers.
Oh, and I've read technical oil studies by Chevron, Shell, etc and talked with chemists in the oil formulation industry. My father's also a Chemical Engineer. The studies and technical papers by the oil companies have some interesting data on 20w vs 30w that might surprise you and dispel any pre-conceptions(i.e. mfgrs oil viscosity recommendations under pressure from US gov't CAFE fuel efficiency mandates). Also on how 5w-30 and 10w-30 are different.
Clue: Other countries DO NOT recommend 5w-20 for the same cars and engines that we drive here. They typically recommend 5w-40 and 5w-30. This includes all of Europe, Asia, and Central and South America.
So, you might want to expand your knowledge base beyond a discussion forum's resources. They tend to be limited in their nature and very subjective. The "Lawrence" source within the link you provided is pretty sound though.
^^^ Ya but it stays all the time. The tick is there even if I've been driving for an hour or ten minutes. I also let it warm up for at least 10-15 minutes beforehand as well... that's why I figured I'd ask. I've been told that changing the oil might help the noise but I know I shouldn't change it until after the break in period? Any suggestions?
Mine was there all the time for the first 1000 miles or so, but has become very intermittant...probably there 25% of the time now. While I was having some TSB's done at the dealer I asked them to listen for the irregular ticking/knocking noise. They heard it but considered it normal.
I tried 5w-30 at a 900 mile oil change and it didn't make a difference
You need to be sure that you're not confusing the fuel injector ticking with an abnormal noise though. The injectors will tick constantly, it's normal. What I'm talking about is an irregular light knocking or clacking noise which sounds just like a sticky lifter...and only there at warm idle, AND only below 1200 RPM. It can't be valve clearance, but it could be an erratic valve, or possibly the variable valve timing.
In fact, in a Kia press release for the new 2.4 direct injection engine, they mentioned a "quieter and more durable" variable valve timing system for the new engine. Hmmm.
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