The intake cam is not turning because the dowel pin that locks the cam to the sprocket broke. As simple as that but a very expensive warranty claim for Kia considering that the pin probably costs less than $10 to produce. There wasn't any damage to valves and pistons; that's most probably because it happened on start-up. If it had failed during 'enthousiastic' acceleration (even though I've never seen Sylvie go over 3,500RPM...) at say, 5-6K RPM, it would have been much, much worse...
Pictures were sent to Kia Canada; I'm guessing that someone over at HQ is very concerned 'cause if this turns out to be more than a one-in-a-million, it-just-happens-sometimes kind of event, the downline repercussions for Kia are potentialy serious, considering their efforts to improve the brand's image.
Parts on order; no ETA as yet (probably not in the supply line yet...)
Gringo
__________________
Koup SX 6spd w 'R' exhaust+throttle mod
Eibach ProKit, ASA AR1 18X7.5 48ET w 215/40-18 BFGoodrich Comp-TA KDW2
UltraRacing strut bars, frame braces, rear swaybar
Caché COE6 LOC, Infinity Reference speakers and Reference 4x75W RMS amp, Kenwood under-seat subwoofer
VG SharkFin antenna, SharkRacing rear lip spoiler, Rear Glass spoiler, Tint 50% rear/rear side+30% front side
Calipers painted gloss black
Absolute HID 4300k 55w low beam and fog lights
^^^
Oh that makes sence
But thats bad news for kia and us both, could be a bad forge on the metal god I hope not.
this news makes me want to hold back on my future motor mod plans alittle while longer.
__________________
Black on black SX
H/p = cubic dollars
how much your willing too spend will dictate how fast you can go
First of all i am not a teck but in my job, if there is no compression in all cylinders it funny, it seems that all of the exaust or intake valves are bent, i realy doubt this there should be some compression in at least one of the cylinders, that leads me to believe that some one is not telling the truth( dealer). If the engine cranks over and does not start and in sound's like is does when you normally start the car. It cannot be all bent valves. When it comes to a flight data recorder the only cars that i know that have them are german ones like v.w they will set a code in obd-2 for engine over speed, will not tell you when and at what speed.
On a honda it will not give you any of this information, but if a sensor fails it will tell you at rmps, engine coolant temp and other conditons but no other condition, as to the dealer ship wanting to hear back from kia. If i had this situtation , i would have to get the customer autheration to tear down the engine, and tell them if it damage due to customer abuse they will have to pay for the repairs, but if not it is warrenty. And 99.9% of the time it is a parts failure. Keep us all informed of your situation, and good luck if you need any help with this please feel free to ask!!!!
First of all i am not a teck but in my job, if there is no compression in all cylinders it funny, it seems that all of the exaust or intake valves are bent, i realy doubt this there should be some compression in at least one of the cylinders, that leads me to believe that some one is not telling the truth( dealer). If the engine cranks over and does not start and in sound's like is does when you normally start the car. It cannot be all bent valves. When it comes to a flight data recorder the only cars that i know that have them are german ones like v.w they will set a code in obd-2 for engine over speed, will not tell you when and at what speed.
On a honda it will not give you any of this information, but if a sensor fails it will tell you at rmps, engine coolant temp and other conditons but no other condition, as to the dealer ship wanting to hear back from kia. If i had this situtation , i would have to get the customer autheration to tear down the engine, and tell them if it damage due to customer abuse they will have to pay for the repairs, but if not it is warrenty. And 99.9% of the time it is a parts failure. Keep us all informed of your situation, and good luck if you need any help with this please feel free to ask!!!!
Well, I'm not an automotive mechanic... but I understand modern internal combustion engines enough to be reasonably confident about the technically conceptual aspects of this failure:
1. The failure occured immediately following engine start-up (I was present);
2. There is no sign of valve-to-piston contact and no damage to valves;
3. There was zero compression on all four cylinders;
4. Simultaneous total failure of piston rings (total meaning 0 compression. Some compression, even if much reduced, would be expected in the event of piston ring failure) in all four cylinders on an almost new engine (10,000km) is very nearly impossible;
4. The pin connecting the intake cam sprocket to the cam is broken. As a result, the cam is sometimes not rotating and at other times rotating at a much reduced velocity in relation to engine speed because of friction between the cam and the sprocket;
5. As a result, none of the valves are in the correct position when the piston rises after the admission part of the admission-compression-ignition-exhaust cycle, therefore none of the cylinders are sealed at the proper moment in the cycle hence, zero compression in every cylinder.
As I stated earlier, Sylvie's been told this will be treated as a valid warranty claim and the dealer has apologised for the lenght if time it took to get this investigated (It appears that Kia Canada was very surprised and is anxious to get the pin forensically analysed to determine the cause of failure) and also regrets the further delay in getting it fixed because those parts are not in the canadian inventory yet.
MyForteKoup, thanks for the positive vibes!!
Gringo
__________________
Koup SX 6spd w 'R' exhaust+throttle mod
Eibach ProKit, ASA AR1 18X7.5 48ET w 215/40-18 BFGoodrich Comp-TA KDW2
UltraRacing strut bars, frame braces, rear swaybar
Caché COE6 LOC, Infinity Reference speakers and Reference 4x75W RMS amp, Kenwood under-seat subwoofer
VG SharkFin antenna, SharkRacing rear lip spoiler, Rear Glass spoiler, Tint 50% rear/rear side+30% front side
Calipers painted gloss black
Absolute HID 4300k 55w low beam and fog lights
That is great for you , i hope that you get your car back asap!!!
Good luck with everthing, and like i said if you ever need anything just
let me know !!
(BTW, please forgive the long delay in posting this, 'been busy...)
Sylvie got her car back exactly 30 days after the breakdown. All expenses, including courtesy rental car (Kia Rio) covered under warranty by Kia Canada.
She's not happy for a couple of reasons:
She's still miffed over Kia Canada initially assuming that she had missed a downshift, and I agree with her. A simple check of the ECU memory thru OBD as a first diagnostic step would have established without a doubt that an overev had not occured. This caused her significant stress and grief;
It took 9 days to get Kia Canada's authorisation to pull the head, an unacceptable delay. It took over 2 weeks to get the parts, another unacceptable delay in this age of global 48-hour freight delivery.
The service manager was quite proud to personally hand over the keys to her; he asked her if she liked the car. Poor guy... She proceeded to calmly but firmly lambast him and Kia Canada for the stress and anguish, the unacceptably long time it took to get it fixed and the evidently poor build quality of Kia engines. He was quite surprised, more than just a little taken aback and made the expected feeble attempt at passing the buck to Kia Canada.
She's now convinced that she bought a friday-afternoon-production lemon, no longer has confidence in the reliability of Kia products and plans to trade it in as soon as it's financially reasonable to do so.
Gringo
__________________
Koup SX 6spd w 'R' exhaust+throttle mod
Eibach ProKit, ASA AR1 18X7.5 48ET w 215/40-18 BFGoodrich Comp-TA KDW2
UltraRacing strut bars, frame braces, rear swaybar
Caché COE6 LOC, Infinity Reference speakers and Reference 4x75W RMS amp, Kenwood under-seat subwoofer
VG SharkFin antenna, SharkRacing rear lip spoiler, Rear Glass spoiler, Tint 50% rear/rear side+30% front side
Calipers painted gloss black
Absolute HID 4300k 55w low beam and fog lights
Sad to hear of the poor service by the dealer and Kia Canada!
I can understand the delays on parts due to the newness of the model, but the service manager should have been apologetic -- essentialy begging for forgiveness -- not asking how she liked her car! He obviously has no tact...
Hope the reliability stays good from now on! Good luck!
My take on this: First, it was grossly irresponsible of the dealer to suggest a cause before anything was determined, particularly when the suggestion carries the assumption that the car's been mistreated, and that a claim would likely be denied. The dealer has no business speculating like that.
And, yes, a quick check of the OBD logs would have helped, though Kia Canada's techs would have wanted to review any other evidence they could have gotten their hands on. Had the dealer done this, and reported back, they might have wound up making a promise the distributor might not have been prepared to keep.
Second, warranty repair is not unlike the insurance business; it takes time for claims to be reviewed, rightly or wrongly. 9 days to get authorization to pull a head sounds like a lot, but I'd be surprised if it ever happens much sooner.
2 weeks for parts IS unfortunate, but at least the owner was being taken care of with a rental.
Putting aside the delays in authorizing the claim and getting the repair parts, what else could Kia have done better here?
Hey Thunderbuck: that's how she feels and she freely admits it's visceral and not rational... (The only thing we need to understand about women is that trying to understand is pointless...)
But I agree with you that setting aside the delays, Kia did ok after they realised it wasn't a misshift.
Gringo
__________________
Koup SX 6spd w 'R' exhaust+throttle mod
Eibach ProKit, ASA AR1 18X7.5 48ET w 215/40-18 BFGoodrich Comp-TA KDW2
UltraRacing strut bars, frame braces, rear swaybar
Caché COE6 LOC, Infinity Reference speakers and Reference 4x75W RMS amp, Kenwood under-seat subwoofer
VG SharkFin antenna, SharkRacing rear lip spoiler, Rear Glass spoiler, Tint 50% rear/rear side+30% front side
Calipers painted gloss black
Absolute HID 4300k 55w low beam and fog lights
Losing confidence in a brand because of a one-time failure like this is definitly not rational...
Car's break, no matter what brand...
You speak the truth...but it's something like "first appearance"...next time she buys a car she'll remember being accused of causing the problem. That's where I would have a problem with this dealer. They should have taken the car in, diagnosed the problem a little quicker, and then made the decision on warranty...should never start with "I think you caused the problem"! ...and though I agree that the time delay for the parts due to the newness of the model wasn't excessive I still would be apologetic when returning the car -- people are never rational when it comes to money and cars...a good service manager should know this!!! If the dealer hadn't made the rash decision and non-apologetic return she would, in time, forget the wait.
i also agree with the whole "you broke it- its your fault...but we will look at it cuz we have to because of the warranty..." attitude being just flat out wrong.
if a company is going to put a warranty as one of their selling points-
that "you broke" it attitude will go a long way to killing any future word of mouth sales ..........
and a big factor in buying my koup was the word of mouth factor.......
i dont really think that any higher up kia folks watch these forums....
but they should.
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) at say, 5-6K RPM, it would have been much, much worse...
Sucre
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Koup
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