engine shut off at highway speed - Kia Forte Forum : Sedan / Koup / Forte5 Forums
User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 15
Drives: forte5 sx
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Exclamation engine shut off at highway speed

yesterday my 2012 forte sx suddenly shut off while going about 60mph on the highway and accelerating. No noise and no smoke....that i noticed....and no sudden revving of the RPM to suggest Trans. I coasted to an exit and shut the car off. Tried to turn the car back on and it wouldn't crank. Checked the computer and everything read green and fine. Checked oil and it was clean with no bad smells. Nothing dripping underneath. Battery connections look good and the radio and interior lights all seemed to function with no dimming or signs of power loss. Tried to have it jumped but it still wouldn't turn over....and after just a couple tries it eventually wouldn't even crank. The car has 50k on it and i bought it last month at 47k....no issues of any kind til now. Carfax looks clean.
I had it towed to the KIA dealer and they said they'll "try to look at it in the next couple days......and no we don't have any loaner cars" WTF??!!
While i'm waiting at their mercy for them to give a shit i figure i might as well see if anyone has any ideas what happened? I looked for another post with anything remotely similar but didn't run across any. Thoughts? Could it still be the alternator even though the lights and radio seem to work fine? Is it possible for the engine to seize without any burnt smells, noises, smoke, leaks, computer diagnostic read outs....or any other sign of trouble?

Last edited by 45died; 08-29-2016 at 11:22 AM.
45died is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 12:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 491
Thanks: 17
Thanked 53 Times in 48 Posts
Based on what you wrote, it sounds like a blown engine that completely locked up while you were jumping it. But that's just a hands-off guess, and it's always possible it could be something else, although I don't know what else fits that description.

You didn't say which engine, but it's not been uncommon to see this type of problem being reported with the GDI/turbo. Do you have the complete oil change history for this vehicle, and is there a second-owner powertrain warranty still in effect?

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
kiaguy007 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to kiaguy007 For This Useful Post:
45died (08-30-2016)
post #3 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 15
Drives: forte5 sx
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
it's a 2012 with 50k miles so the second owner warranty should still apply...(i believe the 2nd owner powertrain warranty drops from 10/100 to 5/60)
the engine is the 2.4l for the forte5 sx with a 6 speed auto.
i'm just surprised the engine could blow at highway speeds but not make any noise or have any signs of damage under the hood or underneath....no smell...nothing. Computer codes are all green.
45died is offline  
 
post #4 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 02:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 491
Thanks: 17
Thanked 53 Times in 48 Posts
Everything you wrote points to a seized engine, which would not have time to set codes on a sudden event. But I hope for your sake that it's just some really weird electrical issue instead.

But if it is a blown engine, the oil change records are likely to become really important. Kia usually always wants to see the complete set of receipts, and it's highly likely they will deny warranty coverage if you can't provide that documentation to them. However, there was a recent thread from someone who was given coverage, even though he didn't have any oil change records. His dealer apparently opened it up and found clean internals with no sludge, and decided to cover the repair under warranty. That was very fortunate for him, but I'd have no confidence that most stealerships would take the high road like that.

Not many (any?) reports of the 2.4L non-GDI Theta engines seizing up. There have been multiple timing chain-related threads, but that issue would not fit the description that you posted (it would still crank, even with bent valves from jumped timing). So it might be very helpful to others in the future, if you post back the what the resolution of your Forte's problem turns out to be.

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K

Last edited by kiaguy007; 08-29-2016 at 02:03 PM.
kiaguy007 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to kiaguy007 For This Useful Post:
45died (08-30-2016)
post #5 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 15
Drives: forte5 sx
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i will report back....when i hear anything. Thanks for your thoughts. yea i researched the forte5 extensively before buying and couldn't find any reports of the engine seizing...or really any recurrent issues at all. I called a couple parts and service departments too and asked of any regular issues and they all said the Forte is very reliable. Now that THIS has happened i do notice a number of theta ii 2.4l engines blowing in the Sonata....to the point where there has been a recall and lawsuits. Same engine the forte has.
45died is offline  
post #6 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 03:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 491
Thanks: 17
Thanked 53 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45died View Post
....Now that THIS has happened i do notice a number of theta ii 2.4l engines blowing in the Sonata....
Although you didn't say so, my understanding is that your 2012 Forte engine is port injected, just like my 2011. The Sonata issue that you mentioned is happening with GDI and 2.0L turbo engines. And there have also been a number of GDI seizures in other Hyundai and Kia models as well. But I have not personally seen any report of a non-GDI seized engine, where it was shown that the oil maintenance was performed within spec.

Yes, they are all Theta engines, which is really dumb. IMO, the GDI/turbos should have been given a different name, because they are certainly different enough to justify that. So, assuming the oil maintenance on your 2.4 is good, this would be the first non-GDI failure report that I've read (if it is in fact seized).

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
kiaguy007 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to kiaguy007 For This Useful Post:
45died (08-30-2016)
post #7 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 15
Drives: forte5 sx
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
so....the engine seized. The dealer is talking with Kia now on whether or not they will honor the warranty.
It is the 2012 forte5 sx 2.4l...which i believe is MPI not GDI.
I found the free carfax still posted online. It doesn't look as good as i remember....i looked at so many cars leading up to the purchase i wonder if i got the carfax's mixed up in my head.
Anyway it shows most service done at Kia in Orlando....but the oil seemed to be changed every 8-10k miles. I never go more than 4k on my cars....though i am used to older cars. Seems like the previous owner was a little negligent....but not enough to blow the engine right? The oil was perfect when i checked it at the dealer....and even after it seized. Looked new in both cases. I wonder if he changed the oil himself in between each dealer visit? What are my chances Kia will honor this? I have only had it for about one month and 2,500 miles. The dealership (CARite) also has a "lifetime engine warranty" on the car. If KIA doesn't follow through CARite will have to. Carfax attached

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory...&partner=GAZ_0
45died is offline  
post #8 of 40 Old 08-29-2016, 10:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 491
Thanks: 17
Thanked 53 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45died View Post
so....the engine seized....
Not surprising, but nevertheless unfortunate news.

Quote:
...the oil seemed to be changed every 8-10k miles....
10K on dino oil would not be good, if that's what they used. But it's hard to say if that amount of miles would sludge up.

Quote:
... What are my chances Kia will honor this? ...
Unpredictable, but much probably rests on how clean the internals are, when they open it up to take a look. Unfortunately for you, they are within their rights to deny, given that the book OCI is 7.5K miles. If they deny the claim, you can try to open a case with Kia. And if that doesn't help, you can join the existing class action lawsuit that's been filed against them.

Quote:
... The dealership (CARite) also has a "lifetime engine warranty" on the car. If KIA doesn't follow through CARite will have to....
Sorry to say, but I've never seen much of anything good written about these third party warranties. These outfits seem to use any excuse to deny warranty claims. And unfortunately, if Kia denies their warranty, they will likely quickly follow suit, claiming missed oil changes caused the engine to fail (regardless if that's true or not).

I hope that this goes well for you, and am very interested to know what the outcome will be.

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
kiaguy007 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to kiaguy007 For This Useful Post:
45died (08-29-2016)
post #9 of 40 Old 08-30-2016, 11:16 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 236
Thanks: 3
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
I don't think the slightly longer oil change interval can lead to a seized engine so long as one use high quality oil. My longest oil change interval for my old car was ~ 19,000 miles but that was done using high quality synthetic oil with a condition reminder maintenance system (i.e. the car tells you when it needs an oil change based on driving conditions). I drove mostly highway.

The problem with long interval oil change with regular motor oil is that the oil becomes a jelly like substance and it plugs up all the holes and valves inside the engine. The worst part is that it will get stuck on the oil pan and will not flow out even when the oil drain plug is removed. The jelly like substance will take up space in the oil pan and it will not mix with the new oil. When the technician pours new oil into the car, instead of 4L, the tech will pour 3.8L of oil and realizes that the oil has reached the "full" line on the dip stick. Repeat the above cycle a few more times, the tech might ended up pouring 3L of new oil instead of 4L of oil not knowing a layer of jello has formed in the oil pan and on every single components inside the engine.

When the first owner sells the car, new oil is poured inside the engine. Keep in mind that a dipstick only measures oil level near the top end of the oil level and does not reach the bottom of the oil pan, the issue is virtually undetectable without opening up the engine to find out.

Hopefully my $0.03 can help you win the case and win an engine swap.
Takashi is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Takashi For This Useful Post:
45died (08-30-2016)
post #10 of 40 Old 08-30-2016, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 15
Drives: forte5 sx
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i tracked down the full service records and now have proof the original owner never went more than 6000 miles between oil changes....and most were done at the KIA dealer.
The Warranty department said "we will likely replace the engine but just need to wait on the DPS manager for final decision".

One interesting thing was made clear to me from 3 places who should know: the KIA dealer in florida who serviced the vehicle, the KIA dealer in Philly where my car is now, and the national KIA warranty department all told me that engine failure has been a very common problem among KIA and Hyundai vehicles from 2011-14. So bad that several have recalls and lawsuits pending. KIA in Philly said they have only seen maybe two Fortes seize.....but many Sorentos, Souls, Sportages, and particularly Optimas. He said that the GDI engines are more of a problem but many non GDI engines seize as well.
45died is offline  
post #11 of 40 Old 08-30-2016, 11:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 491
Thanks: 17
Thanked 53 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45died View Post
....One interesting thing was made clear to me from 3 places who should know: the KIA dealer in florida who serviced the vehicle, the KIA dealer in Philly where my car is now, and the national KIA warranty department all told me that engine failure has been a very common problem among KIA and Hyundai vehicles from 2011-14. So bad that several have recalls and lawsuits pending. ...
.
There have been rumblings on the auto forums about large numbers of Hyundai/Kia engine failures for some time (going way beyond the well-known Sonata issues). However, the information that you related above is a stunning and astonishing thing for individuals in the Kia organization to voluntarily say to a customer. I have no understanding why they would do this, and would have expected them instead to either claim no knowledge or flat out deny widespread engine failures. Considering the source, this is a truly unsettling thing for Hyundai/Kia owners to read, but it's also a very important thing to know. Thanks for sharing what they said to you.

.
Quote:
KIA in Phily said they have only seen maybe two Fortes seize.....but many Sorentos, Souls, Sportages, and particularly Optimas. He said that the GDI engines are more of a problem but many non GDI engines seize as well.
Here again, Kia employees using the word 'many' is disturbing, to say the least. And 'many non-GDI engines seizing' is completely new to me. Your specific case of engine seizure is further negative reinforcement, because your vehicle has documented good oil maintenance, along with OEM filters.

But very glad to read that you found good, solid oil change records! Yours is one engine failure that should ultimately turn out well for you, even though it's a short-term PITA. Not nearly so confident for those of us who would normally plan on keeping our Kias for 200K+ miles. I guess time will tell about that.

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
kiaguy007 is offline  
post #12 of 40 Old 08-31-2016, 08:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Walpole, MA
Posts: 1,154
Thanks: 11
Thanked 85 Times in 74 Posts
Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that it is "very common" for the engines to sieze in Kia/Hyundai products. The 2.4L engine is also used in Chrysler and Mitsubishi products, so there are a lot of them out there. If they were seizing, we would certainly have heard about it.

A failed engine is a relatively rare occurrence in a modern car, but certainly can still happen. However, some sort of design defect that is affecting all Kia/Hyundai engines (apparently especially the GDI's) just doesn't seem possible.

Now that I've said this, I've doomed my engine to early failure.

2015 Forte SX 5 door with 6 speed manual
2016 Audi A4 Quattro with 6 speed manual
2001 Audi TT Quattro Roadster with 6 speed manual
Walpole5 is offline  
post #13 of 40 Old 08-31-2016, 10:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 491
Thanks: 17
Thanked 53 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walpole5 View Post
Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that it is "very common" for the engines to sieze in Kia/Hyundai products.....
You're obviously free to believe whatever you want to.

But it's a very well known fact that there's been a widespread failure of 2011-12 Hyundai Sonata GDI/Turbo engines, which ultimately turned into a NHTSA safety recall. Hyundai claims that this was due to an isolated manufacturing processing defect, but others believe the scope of this is much larger and involving many other Hyundai/Kia models.

I've seen a number of threads on the forums related to various Theta GDI/Turbo failures, and class action suits against Kia for denying warranty claims. You can search for and read this information if you wish, or just dismiss the whole thing if you choose to. I'd certainly agree that, aside from the Sonata recall, it's impossible to know (at this point) what the honest and complete story on these engine failures is. Personally I don't 'believe' anything just yet, but am keeping my mind open to the various possibilities.

The completely new thing here in this thread is Kia employees admitting to what's just been speculation up to now. This is so amazing to me, that I did give some consideration to the OP being a troll. IMO this doesn't sound like the work of a troll but if it is, then I got hooked real good!

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
kiaguy007 is offline  
post #14 of 40 Old 08-31-2016, 10:39 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: brownstownanon
Posts: 166
Drives: 2006 GMC, 2008 Rio, 2010 Forte
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Couple of fail points here.... one the 2.4's are not prone to failure. Period. the 2.0T engines seem to be having some issues with US built cars, but even then it's not as widespread as, say, Subaru ringlands. There has been no issues with the port injected 2.4's or 2.0's outside of the random "oil change? what's that" people.
bobozillamonster is offline  
post #15 of 40 Old 08-31-2016, 11:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 491
Thanks: 17
Thanked 53 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobozillamonster View Post
Couple of fail points here.... one the 2.4's are not prone to failure. Period ....
No idea where you came up with that 'fact' but lots of owners, along with the NHTSA, disagree with that statement.
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/yf-201...ine-stall.html

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
kiaguy007 is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off