Engine knocking while on the gas with video - Kia Forte Forum : Sedan / Koup / Forte5 Forums
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post #1 of 24 Old 12-11-2016, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Engine knocking while on the gas with video

Looked all around in here for something close to what I have for a knocking, but found nothing related.

I haven't opened up the valve cover yet since it's been so cold and I haven't had a day off for about 2 weeks now and won't until this coming Sunday. So I'm not sure if it's the timing chain or not, but it really doesn't sound like it. The knocking comes more so from the top/middle of the engine only during loads of 2k rpms and above. As soon as I let me foot off the gas at any point while still or driving the sound immediately goes away and will come back when I push the gas back in.

2011 Kia Forte Koup SX
105k miles
Every fuel change at 5k-7k depending on how I drive
No metal shards in the oil
No smoke out the back
No loss in performance
No knocking at idle

https://youtu.be/JPawl2P98EY

2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
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post #2 of 24 Old 12-13-2016, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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Update:

Took the valve cover off and confirmed that there are no metal flakes anywhere. Timing chain has very very little slack like it's suppose to. The valve springs were stiff, but moved a little with some applied effort.

Other than that, everything seemed fine aside from the P200A code I got which most Hyundai and Kias from 2009+ have had this code and it means that the VCMA (Variable Charge Motion Actuator) is potentially bad. After some research online (THANKS, GOOGLE!) I saw that the vast majority of people with this code got it in early miles on their motor and took care of it then. The process requires that the part be changed and a Kia dealer must update the ECU after installation.

I'll be going by the dealership this week I hope to have them diagnose it and tell me if the block is screwed, but first the oil filter will be changed tonight with a Wix filter.

2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
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post #3 of 24 Old 12-13-2016, 11:20 AM
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I'm curious why you are changing the oil filter to Wix before you bring it to the dealer. What filter is in there now? Do you suspect it's part of the problem? Why not put a Kia filter in before bringing it to the dealer?
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post #4 of 24 Old 12-14-2016, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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I have an STP filter on there now, but would rather have a better filter on it after doing some more research. The STP has the anti-drain back valve on it which is what the OEM filter requires, but the Wix is known to be better than STP. I'm not overly concerned with having the exact OEM filter on there as warranty means nothing to me now. The Bosch filter I had on there last time could've been a problem, but that one met OEM standards as well.

With the VCMA being a common issue it makes me think that this part could be assisting in the issue as well, but ultimately I think the problem is bigger than a simple part.

2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-14-2016, 09:19 PM
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First thing to understand is that the only function of the VCMA is to alter the intake air flow pattern during the first few seconds of a cold start up, It then becomes inactive after completing that task.

The next thing to know is that it's possible that the VCMA issue (P200A) can be resolved simply by cleaning the part along with the associated housing. However, it would almost certainly be a waste of your time to ask a stealership about this, because it's highly unlikely they would have a clue about anything except replacing the part (and charging you around $700 or so). It's not a difficult DIY, or you might find an indy shop willing to try this cleaning job at your request.

And last but not least, the noise (which does not sound good). Just to get a good baseline, I listened to our Forte this evening, and there is definitely nothing at all like what's on your vid, If it were mine, I'd do a comprehensive oil pressure test. Then, if the pressure is lower than spec, you could try a Kia filter, in order to see if the readings go up. Although it's a bit of a long shot, it may be possible for you to get some compensation from the aftermarket filter company, if you can show the oil pressure is too low with their filter on your vehicle.

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-17-2016, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks kiaguy007. I went by the dealership and luckily they didn't charge me anything to look at my car since all they did was listen to it for about 20 minutes. They told me that it seems like a bottom-end problem and that the knocking sounds like a rod knock for sure. But they don't know since they didn't do any tests of any kind. So since they don't know I'm taking it to the other Kia dealer down the road from me and getting their opinion.

I asked how much a motor would be through the dealership to see how much of a difference it would be from buying a used one on ebay (there isn't a junkyard within 300 miles of me with a Forte) and they quoted me almost $5k for parts/labor without tax. The ebay motor is $1200 - $1500 shipped, but I need to ask my preferred mechanic around here what he would charge to do it for me. I may be able to get a couple guys from Florida to come do it with me if I can get a garage for a day.

2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
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post #7 of 24 Old 12-18-2016, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalum View Post
... there isn't a junkyard within 300 miles of me with a Forte....
If you're up for digging around a bit more, the Theta 2.4L MPI is in a number of other Kia and Hyundai models. An engine from a different vehicle might require reprogramming the ECM, for (S}ULEV, transmission, etc. But, even with that, it might still work out to be a much lower cost option.

It sounds like you have no interest in dropping the oil pan and trying to determine exactly what the damage might be? Not suggesting it would be a simple repair, but if it were mine I'd want to take a look in any case, before moving on to the much more expensive job. If you caught it early enough, perhaps the crank hasn't been damaged yet. Not very likely, but also not much work to check it out.

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
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post #8 of 24 Old 12-19-2016, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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I've been asked if I have dropped the pan yet, but I figure if I'm doing any kind of maintenance on my car that requires a lift and some other stuff that I'm going to need to take out a loan for repairs no matter what. I know that taking off the pan is fairly simple, but I have no clue as to what I'm looking for besides seeing if the bearings are worn and of course the typical metal shavings. Also, the possibly damage of the pan is another concern. If I can get about $300 or so saved up soon I will get that done as if it is a bottom end problem that can be saved early would save me easily $1500+ compared to a new motor and work going into swapping it.

2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 10:12 PM
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Hey, were you able to figure out what was the problem? I just bought a kia koup 2010 last month and i am experiencing the same problem, i am being a bit worried if i would have to change the engine
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Actually. I was able to figure out what it most likely is. A performance shop told me that it's a rod bearing going bad and that this is the only thing it can be since we have free floating rods and pistons. I have actually purchased a motor with 81k miles on it and will be driving to Orlando, FL from Knoxville this Friday to get some help from Nick and Raj to put it in. Nick will be getting my old motor and tearing it down to work on it for his own project so he'll let me know exactly what he finds soon enough.

Your best bet is that if it's still knocking that you need to take it back to the dealership and tell them they gave you an unreliable car. That is assuming they gave you some kind of dealer warranty.
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2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
Jalum is online now  
post #11 of 24 Old 02-28-2017, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalum View Post
... Nick will be getting my old motor and tearing it down to work on it for his own project so he'll let me know exactly what he finds soon enough. ...
If it turns out to be a spun bearing, that's usually the result of insufficient oil. And that could in turn be caused by low oil level, blocked passages, bad oil pump, or a filter issue. Sounds like your OCIs were fine, so there shouldn't be any sludge or low oil levels, and pumps don't fail very often.

Have to wonder about those aftermarket oil filters you used. However at this point, it's probably impossible to know if those filters were the root cause. Although there's no proof of anything here, it is another bit of possible (but unconfirmed) evidence that KIA filters are the way to go.

Hope the engine swap goes well for you, and your Forte is back up and running soon.
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-28-2017, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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It is best to just use the oem filter as just a precaution. You can't go wrong with oem. :/ I will say that Anthonyc77 just dropped his oil pan the other week and found a piece of a rubber gasket stuck in the oil pick up screen. As far as oil goes, I did run the Tail of the Dragon a week or so before pretty hard, but only had my oil up to 4.5qts like required. I should have gone to 5 since there was so much sloshing, but never thought about it until afterwards with this knock.

I just got the motor today and it's sitting where the passenger seat used to be. Everything is ready for the long trip. Fingers crossed I don't blow up before I get there. Lol.

2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
Jalum is online now  
post #13 of 24 Old 03-09-2017, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Here's the update. I drove down to Orlando from Knoxville to meet up with Raj and Nick to help me swap the engine. Made the 10 hour/700 mile trip down there with a knock and the new engine in the passenger seat area with no problems on the way down. Friday night we started taking the connectors off and removing easy things. Saturday we R&R the motor in roughly 9 hours including lunch break, drinking, ice cream, and first start up.

Since Sunday I've been driving the car with no issues what so ever. We changed the motor out at 107k and put in one with 81k. This is be kind of picture heavy since most of the videos can't be shared on here.





















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2011 SX
-XXR 535 17x8.25 wheels
-Roadruns grill
-STI front lip
-Smithclub V2 headlights

-NRG steering wheel
-Custom false floor
-Pioneer AVH-3500BHS head unit
-2x Rockford Fosgate P3D410 subs
-Rockford Fosgate T600-2 amp
-2x Rockford Fosgate P1652-S speakers
-Rockford Fosgate T400-4 amp

-SCF front/rear motor mounts
-Ultra Racing strut bar
-BC Racing coilovers
-Eline drilled/slotted rotors
-Megan Racing downpipe+testpipe
-Magnaflow muffler
-TK cai
Jalum is online now  
post #14 of 24 Old 03-09-2017, 11:51 AM
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Thanks for sharing the pics, and glad to read it's back on the road in good shape again! Did they discuss pulling the engine up and out, versus dropping it down? Did the replacement come from another similar Forte?

I'm more than a bit surprised given all of the knocking, that it went that many miles without seizing or throwing a rod. If those guys tear the old engine down as you mentioned previously, I'd be interested to know what they find out.

2011 SX 2.4L A/T 96K
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-09-2017, 03:43 PM
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Nice horns!

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