2010 Koup Not Turning Over - Kia Forte Forum : Sedan / Koup / Forte5 Forums
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post #1 of 32 Old 04-27-2019, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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2010 Koup Not Turning Over

Hey all,


My 2010 Koup SX is not turning over. Just started doing this yesterday morning. Was working fine the day before. I DID notice that day though, on the drive to work, I was on the highway doing 70 and all my gauges quickly dropped and then went back to normal (there was no impact on the driving, just the gauges). I think it did this a few times weeks/months ago too (always just thought I was crazy seeing it out of my peripheral).


So yeah, I knew my battery needed changing (200CCA), so I went ahead and changed it, no dice.


I also noticed that I cannot turn on the headlights or highbeams OR seat warmers when in the ACC/RUN position. The windows also don't work (which I know 100% is not normal).


I checked every single fuse + swapped the relays for START (I think it was called) and Blower.


Also thought it could be the switch on the clutch, but that wouldn't explain the not being able to turn on the lights/seat warmers/windows.



Anybody got any ideas? Maybe a relay or something? Really hoping it's not the BCM or ECU or some expensive thing like that.

Last edited by Acura_Kal; 04-27-2019 at 06:51 PM.
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post #2 of 32 Old 04-27-2019, 06:51 PM
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Check to see if there is power at starter relay pin #1 with no key in, and at #2 with the key at start. If both have power, then try a jump of relay pins #1 and #5 , to see if the starter will spin.

2011 SX 2.4L (thankfully MPI) A/T 130K
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post #3 of 32 Old 04-27-2019, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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You're talking about the relay in the under-hood fuse panel? It's a black square and I only see 4 pins.


... or is it something else I should be checking?


I'm so horrible with electrical issues. I don't even know how to check for power at pins (will Google it).
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post #4 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 12:24 AM
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I forgot that the numbers I used are from a wiring diagram, and aren't useful without the orientation. The actual numbers stamped on the underside of the relay are easier to use, just make sure you match each pin number on the relay to the corresponding female slot it goes into, because it's those slots that are used for this testing, not the pins on the relay.

So you need to test pin #30 for power with the key out, and pin #85 for power with the key at start. To test them, set a multimeter on the low range (i.e. 20 volts). Touch one meter lead to the relay slot you're testing, and the other to the negative battery terminal. If your meter lead can't make contact with the metal slot, use wire such as a paper clip to get down the slot and then touch the meter lead to the bridge wire. Battery voltage (around 12.5V) is what your looking to see.

To jump the relay, use a piece of around 14 gauge solid insulated wire, and briefly touch the wire ends to pin slots #30 to #87 , which should cause the starter to spin (no key needed). Don't force the wire into the slots if it doesn't slide in easily (file the wire down to fit). Depending on the results, additional testing may be required, but you want to start with those tests first.

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post #5 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 10:02 AM
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I can't help much with your no start, but I will mention that I had to have my starter rebuilt at around 65k miles after it started to work intermittently. Regarding your gauges dropping, this is normal behavior based on my previous 2011 and current 2015 SX. They will very briefly drop and come back up at seemingly random times. I'm not sure what causes it, but it never gets worse and it doesn't happen often. I don't believe it's related to your current problem

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post #6 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all this detailed, step by step info @kiaguy007 I really appreciate it.

I did all the tests and got no results for anything... I checked the pins you specified with key in/out. I then went and checked all 4 pins with key in or out, and nothing is showing up on my multimeter. Also, jumping those 2 pins with key in or out did absolutely nothing either. I didn't have a solid 14 gauge wire, but I had pretty heavy duty braided amplifier (10-12 gauge) wire hanging around that I used.

I'm assuming the results of this test are bad

Do you have anything else I can try?



I'm still finding it very weird that the heated seats, windows, blower/fan, headlights/highbeams don't work in the RUN position.


Thanks @Walpole5 for confirming I'm not crazy and the gauges dropping is not a big deal. I didn't think it was related either, since it's been doing it once in a while since I got the car, but just coincidence that it happens on the day of this problem.
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post #7 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acura_Kal View Post
... I'm assuming the results of this test are bad ....
Not necessarily, but that depends on what the actual problem is.

First off, I wasn't expecting the no power condition at pin #30 of the starter relay, because that's very rarely the case. So I suggest doing a quick double-check of that first. First confirm that your meter shows around 12.5 volts, when probing the battery terminals. Then take the lead off the positive battery terminal, and touch it to starter relay pin slot #30 , just like you did the first time, making certain that the meter probe is making contact with the metal inside of the #30 slot.

If there is really no voltage reading at starter relay #30 , then you need to next check the multifuse, which is located at the very front of the fuse box (fastened with 2 nuts). I did see that you checked the fuses, but no power at the #30 relay pin reduces the root cause to very possibilities, with the fuse automatically being the primary suspect.

Check all of the copper fuse links, which are visible in the front window, looking for broken links. The fuse which protects the starter circuit is IGN2, which is the second link from the right side of the multifuse. If the multifuse appears to be ok, then check for power with your meter at the metal connector on each side (underneath the nuts).

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post #8 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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I checked my multimeter with the battery, and it's giving me 12.58V, then I moved the positive into the pin slot for the relay, and nothing. I tried all 4 again, nothing. For the hell of it, I pulled the relay beside it, which is for the Blower I believe, and checked a random pin slot; it immediately showed me 12.6V.


I don't think I have the multifuse that you're talking about. I've attached a picture of what my fuse boxes look like. The copper fuses with the windows look ok to me, the metal circle on the top doesn't appear to be broken.


I'm very interested in the multifuse now... I didn't see any fuses held down by nuts.





Thanks again for your suggestions and ideas, I really appreciate it.
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post #9 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acura_Kal View Post
....The copper fuses with the windows look ok to me, ...
That's the multifuse - multiple copper fuses in a integrated unit

Quote:
.... I'm very interested in the multifuse now... I didn't see any fuses held down by nuts. ....
Looking at your picture #3 of the fuse box, in each of the lower corners, there are threaded posts with nuts on them. If you use your meter to probe the plate beneath the nuts to the negative battery terminal, there should be 12.6 volts at each of them.

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post #10 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiaguy007 View Post
That's the multifuse - multiple copper fuses in a integrated unit
So there's multiple multifuses? They all seem fine, the metal ring on top is intact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiaguy007 View Post
Looking at your picture #3 of the fuse box, in each of the lower corners, there are threaded posts with nuts on them. If you use your meter to probe the plate beneath the nuts to the negative battery terminal, there should be 12.6 volts at each of them.

Both of the posts have ~12.58 volts. I probed the nut/post and the plate beneath.


So what now? :O
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post #11 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acura_Kal View Post
So there's multiple multifuses? ...
No just one.





Quote:
... Both of the posts have ~12.58 volts. I probed the nut/post and the plate beneath.


So what now? :O
With power coming into the fuse having been confirmed, there are only 2 remaining possibilities. Either the multifuse is blown/broken, or something has gone bad inside the fuse box - specifically in the circuitry from the multfuse to the starter relay port #30 (and perhaps others as well).

The multifuse is the easiest by far to test, so I recommend removing it and taking an up-close look at it. Although I've never had to remove the multifuse in my vehicle, I believe it's no more than removing the nuts from the posts and lifting out the copper multifuse unit. However, first remove both cables from the battery, before you do anything in the fuse box.

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post #12 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiaguy007 View Post
No just one.
Ahhhhhhhhh! I don't think we were talking about the same thing. There's a bunch of little fuses 30A/40A with clear tops, I thought it was those. I googled Kia multifuse and now I know what you mean. I haven't checked any of those fuses yet, I must of missed them. I was looking down at the fuse box, and I'm assuming those are on the front side or something. It looks something like this I guess? https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....SY427SH20_.jpg



Quote:
Originally Posted by kiaguy007 View Post
With power coming into the fuse having been confirmed, there are only 2 remaining possibilities. Either the multifuse is blown/broken, or something has gone bad inside the fuse box - specifically in the circuitry from the multfuse to the starter relay port #30 (and perhaps others as well).

The multifuse is the easiest by far to test, so I recommend removing it and taking an up-close look at it. Although I've never had to remove the multifuse in my vehicle, I believe it's no more than removing the nuts from the posts and lifting out the copper multifuse unit. However, first remove both cables from the battery, before you do anything in the fuse box.

I'll check that multifuse tomorrow and post back. Thanks so much for helping me and being patient.
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post #13 of 32 Old 04-28-2019, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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I couldn't wait, I went out and checked it. It looks fine to me I can remove it and look at it closer tomorrow, but I can see it pretty well in the car and all fuses are intact. I totally did not see all those fuses there before.


I'm wondering if I should throw a new fuse box at it or get it towed to Kia.
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post #14 of 32 Old 04-29-2019, 12:49 AM
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Definitely remove the multifuse and examine it carefully. If you believe the multifuse is ok, then yes, try replacing the fuse box. If you wanted to confirm the previous testing, you could do a continuity test from the IGN2 fuse slot to starter relay #30 , which should show no continuity.

Here's one from a group of used boxes, or you could get a new, empty one for around $60 shipped.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kia-Forte-F...ty!01068!US!-1

AFA having it towed to Kia, that's obviously your call. I'd guess the bill from Kia for this repair would be somewhere in the $400-500 range. However, I've been too low on some of my repair bill guesses before.

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post #15 of 32 Old 04-29-2019, 12:24 PM
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Do they have the main fuse, like 40 A or 100 A on the positive side?

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