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Well, at least it means lots of work and job security for you. For as long as they remain in business anyway.
 

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I was thinking likewise. It was sad because my buddy was car shopping and I honestly couldn't recommend the Hyundai/Kia vehicles we were seeing at the lots. They're for the most part great cars. But the elephant in the room has been those damn engines. When they work, they work well. Very decent power, great fuel economy on those long roadtrips . But I'll be honest I no longer live with confidence in my engine. Any small noise I hear, and I'm suddenly paranoid, like a soldier in enemy territory. And guys, I'm a technician. Picture that. Idk what I would do if I was just a regular non-car Joe.
I'm not an automotive tech, but a maintenance technician at a factory. So I can fix things, and a big part of my job is preventative maintenance. And even at home I stay on top of things like fluids and filters, and it sucks knowing that despite performing perfect maintenance and using high quality parts, my engine will likely fall victim to this as well. If it's under warranty, great, but that doesn't prevent it from being a huge hassle.

And I know what you mean. I had some weird little hiccup at a red light yesterday where I felt the idle jump a bit, and I immediately assumed the worst. Pretty sure it was just the AC compressor kicking on, but it still startled me.

I've heard of the Subaru issue but never had to deal with that thankfully.
It really sucked. Imagine everyone in your family being without a vehicle because they all had simultaneous head gasket failures, none covered under warranty. I was the only one spared, as I had an older engine without the flaw, so everyone was sharing my car for weeks while the others were fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I'm not an automotive tech, but a maintenance technician at a factory. So I can fix things, and a big part of my job is preventative maintenance. And even at home I stay on top of things like fluids and filters, and it sucks knowing that despite performing perfect maintenance and using high quality parts, my engine will likely fall victim to this as well. If it's under warranty, great, but that doesn't prevent it from being a huge hassle.

And I know what you mean. I had some weird little hiccup at a red light yesterday where I felt the idle jump a bit, and I immediately assumed the worst. Pretty sure it was just the AC compressor kicking on, but it still startled me.



It really sucked. Imagine everyone in your family being without a vehicle because they all had simultaneous head gasket failures, none covered under warranty. I was the only one spared, as I had an older engine without the flaw, so everyone was sharing my car for weeks while the others were fixed.
Yet people like this often get their engine replaced, no hassle
 

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class-action lawsuit filed in the U.S. alleges some models of Kia’s

EEESH I just bought my 2012 Kia Forte5 with the 2.0L Theta II engine 'G4KD' and experiencing same knocking shortly there after. This stuff worry's me because there is a tonne of supporting evidence out there about Theta engine troubles. Seems that this weeks most recent recalls in Canada are predominately for the turbo engines but non-turbo engines are claiming the same issues. Check out this vid about class action lawsuit in US.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/class-action-lawsuit-alleges-defect-exists-in-some-kia-engines-1.2977650

I dropped my car in for a checkup and they told me the minor ticking I am experiencing is engine failure. No engine light on or anything! Only had the car for a week. The stealership is blaming oil filter but just like the guy in this vid says 'car makers sometimes abuse that requirement'. When asked about other kia models 'Kia provided no response'. Their solution was extending warranty. But that does not resolve the issue. As a consumer you should be honored for regular routine maintenance, regardless of OEM or equivalent products are purchased. When I brought my car to a non-biased third party mechanic he dropped the oil pan and peered into the top of engine head and reported that there was no discoloration which would typically be evident if the maintenance was neglected. His exact words were 'engine looks squeaky clean'. I dont really want to get my engine replaced with another faulty one if there is a common issue with the engines. I want a recall approved small block replacement. I asked kia what their warranty was if i so chose to replace engine. They said 1 year, regardless of kms. They wont even stand behind their standard manufacturers 80,000km warranty with replacement! Every mechanic offers a 1 year warranty, cant help but feel like im getting screwed.
Thoughts?
 

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... I dropped my car in for a checkup and they told me the minor ticking I am experiencing is engine failure. ...
What testing did they do to arrive at the diagnosis of engine failure? And what exactly did they say has failed?

....When I brought my car to a non-biased third party mechanic he dropped the oil pan and peered into the top of engine head and reported that there was no discoloration which would typically be evident if the maintenance was neglected. His exact words were 'engine looks squeaky clean'. ...
Did this mechanic confirm the previous diagnosis of engine failure? If not, what did he say?
 

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Discussion Starter #46
EEESH I just bought my 2012 Kia Forte5 with the 2.0L Theta II engine 'G4KD' and experiencing same knocking shortly there after. This stuff worry's me because there is a tonne of supporting evidence out there about Theta engine troubles. Seems that this weeks most recent recalls in Canada are predominately for the turbo engines but non-turbo engines are claiming the same issues. Check out this vid about class action lawsuit in US.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/class-action-lawsuit-alleges-defect-exists-in-some-kia-engines-1.2977650

I dropped my car in for a checkup and they told me the minor ticking I am experiencing is engine failure. No engine light on or anything! Only had the car for a week. The stealership is blaming oil filter but just like the guy in this vid says 'car makers sometimes abuse that requirement'. When asked about other kia models 'Kia provided no response'. Their solution was extending warranty. But that does not resolve the issue. As a consumer you should be honored for regular routine maintenance, regardless of OEM or equivalent products are purchased. When I brought my car to a non-biased third party mechanic he dropped the oil pan and peered into the top of engine head and reported that there was no discoloration which would typically be evident if the maintenance was neglected. His exact words were 'engine looks squeaky clean'. I dont really want to get my engine replaced with another faulty one if there is a common issue with the engines. I want a recall approved small block replacement. I asked kia what their warranty was if i so chose to replace engine. They said 1 year, regardless of kms. They wont even stand behind their standard manufacturers 80,000km warranty with replacement! Every mechanic offers a 1 year warranty, cant help but feel like im getting screwed.
Thoughts?
When I received my car after the engine repair, the warranty was also 1 year, but unlike you, I was limited to 12,000 miles. There were indeed many commonalities with the Theta engines failing. About 6 months after I started at Kia, the first gen Koups and Fortes engines were failing in bunches. We had about 6-7 fail at once if my memory serves me well. If they refuse to help you, go higher up the chain of command. In America we have the NTHSA and BBB to help us with claims like this. Check to see what agencies are available in Canada.
 

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Well KIA corporate has turned down any assistance in my engine failure!!! I am so pissed. The local dealer wants 9500.00 plus 8%sales tax to replace the short block. They are freaking crazy. They want almost 6,000.00 for used motor with 90 day warranty. CRAZY! I am so pissed. I guess I am going to buy an ebay motor for $950.00 and replace it myself. Does anyone have any pointers on this task. I would like to talk to you KIA mechanics about this. I appreciate it.

Thanks all.

Aaron
 

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Discussion Starter #49 (Edited)
Well KIA corporate has turned down any assistance in my engine failure!!! I am so pissed. The local dealer wants 9500.00 plus 8%sales tax to replace the short block. They are freaking crazy. They want almost 6,000.00 for used motor with 90 day warranty. CRAZY! I am so pissed. I guess I am going to buy an ebay motor for $950.00 and replace it myself. Does anyone have any pointers on this task. I would like to talk to you KIA mechanics about this. I appreciate it.

Thanks all.

Aaron
That's ludicrous. My long block was supposed came out to be 7500 with diagnosis and labor. They're trying to pull a fast one on ya.

Any help you need, I'm here for ya bud. I have the OEM manual. It's a rather easy replacement.

For ease of procedure, I usually work my way top to bottom. This isn't in exact order or all-inclusive but if I miss anything guys, let me know. Anyway, you're going to want to:
1. Remove the radiator cap, and start draining the coolant by removing the plug on the lower left side of the radiator.
2. Remove the wiper arms, wiper cowl, and the disconnect the washer hose
3. Remove the air box (top and bottom) and disconnect the hose at the top of the valve cover leading to the duct
4. Disconnect and remove your battery and battery tray, ECM/TCM behind the battery
5. Disconnect any and all electrical connectors and lay them off to the side where the battery was. (As far as the coils go, I usually leave them attached to their connectors and just place them with the rest of the connectors)
6. Remove the main engine harness by pushing the two plastic tabs on the protective cover directly above the purge valve. At this point, there will be several other bolts that hold up the fuel line and vacuum line that goes to the brake booster. Remove those and the ground bolt next to them as well as the one near the right upper engine mount. Lay the harness off to the side with the rest of the connectors.
7. Now with that done, go ahead and remove the high pressure fuel pump (not sure if your used engine will come with one), should be a 19mm. Make sure you have bled the fuel pressure by cranking the engine with the fuel pump fuse off and use a rag to catch the excess fuel. Be careful doing this. Once loose, remove the two 10mm bolts that secure it.
8. At this point there should be no connectors or harnesses laying across the engine, preventing it from later lifting straight out of the bay.
9. Remove the throttle body by removing the four 10mm bolts attaching it to the intake. Set it off to the side with the previously mentioned connectors.
10. Move over to the intake and remove connected hose at the front the valve cover. Remove the two 12mm nuts and three 12mm bolts securing the top portion of the intake manifold.
11. Loosen the 14mm alternator anchor bolt. Now loosen (but do not remove) the 12mm adjustment pinch bolt on the side. After, loosen the 12mm (top) alternator adjuster bolt. If you're looking straight down from the engine bay, it will be between the high pressure AC line and lower radiator hose pointed at an angle. Remove the belt.
12. Now I have two methods of doing the following but can't seem to remember the other one. You're going to remove the two 12mm bolts holding the adjustment bracket. Also remove the 12mm pinch bolt on the adjuster. Now, loosen the 14mm alternator anchor bolt so that it is no longer threaded into the alternator. It is not necessary to completely remove this bolt. CAREFULLY pry the alternator up and out of this. It would help to spray some lubricant if there is corrosion on the 14mm bolt.

That should be most of it for the top portion. Part 2 coming soon!
 

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That's ludicrous. My long block was supposed came out to be 7500 with diagnosis and labor. They're trying to pull a fast one on ya.

Any help you need, I'm here for ya bud. I have the OEM manual. It's a rather easy replacement.

For ease of procedure, I usually work my way top to bottom. This isn't in exact order or all-inclusive but if I miss anything guys, let me know. Anyway, you're going to want to:
1. Remove the radiator cap, and start draining the coolant by removing the plug on the lower left side of the radiator.
2. Remove the wiper arms, wiper cowl, and the disconnect the washer hose
3. Remove the air box (top and bottom) and disconnect the hose at the top of the valve cover leading to the duct
4. Disconnect and remove your battery and battery tray, ECM/TCM behind the battery
5. Disconnect any and all electrical connectors and lay them off to the side where the battery was. (As far as the coils go, I usually leave them attached to their connectors and just place them with the rest of the connectors)
6. Remove the main engine harness by pushing the two plastic tabs on the protective cover directly above the purge valve. At this point, there will be several other bolts that hold up the fuel line and vacuum line that goes to the brake booster. Remove those and the ground bolt next to them as well as the one near the right upper engine mount. Lay the harness off to the side with the rest of the connectors.
7. Now with that done, go ahead and remove the high pressure fuel pump (not sure if your used engine will come with one), should be a 19mm. Make sure you have bled the fuel pressure by cranking the engine with the fuel pump fuse off and use a rag to catch the excess fuel. Be careful doing this. Once loose, remove the two 10mm bolts that secure it.
8. At this point there should be no connectors or harnesses laying across the engine, preventing it from later lifting straight out of the bay.
9. Remove the throttle body by removing the four 10mm bolts attaching it to the intake. Set it off to the side with the previously mentioned connectors.
10. Move over to the intake and remove connected hose at the front the valve cover. Remove the two 12mm nuts and three 12mm bolts securing the top portion of the intake manifold.
11. Loosen the 14mm alternator anchor bolt. Now loosen (but do not remove) the 12mm adjustment pinch bolt on the side. After, loosen the 12mm (top) alternator adjuster bolt. If you're looking straight down from the engine bay, it will be between the high pressure AC line and lower radiator hose pointed at an angle. Remove the belt.
12. Now I have two methods of doing the following but can't seem to remember the other one. You're going to remove the two 12mm bolts holding the adjustment bracket. Also remove the 12mm pinch bolt on the adjuster. Now, loosen the 14mm alternator anchor bolt so that it is no longer threaded into the alternator. It is not necessary to completely remove this bolt. CAREFULLY pry the alternator up and out of this. It would help to spray some lubricant if there is corrosion on the 14mm bolt.

That should be most of it for the top portion. Part 2 coming soon!
Thanks LtHavoc!!!
 

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Today My brother and I removed everything up top on the motor. I should be picking up a Used motor with 43K miles from LKQ houston. Tomorrow afternoon I hope to have this seized motor out of the car and start putting this replacement motor in.



The hardest part so far was getting the alternator out.

wish me luck
 

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Broken pieces in oil pan. The piston split in two pieces. It was preventing the engine from turning. We had a tough time getting the pieces out of the way so we could turn the engine to loosed the flex plate bolts.







We got the new motor in today but the starter I picked up is the wrong one.




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Discussion Starter #54
Good to hear, I can imagine the pain to remove those bolts and turning that junker over. Glad you guys got it out. I've been absent a bit, been squaring myself off with the IRS.

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Broken pieces in oil pan. The piston split in two pieces. It was preventing the engine from turning. We had a tough time getting the pieces out of the way so we could turn the engine to loosed the flex plate bolts.







We got the new motor in today but the starter I picked up is the wrong one.




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What if you took the metal debris to a metalurgist lab and test it for fault and or defects - as in inconsistency in quality or bad smelting mix at time of manufacture etc....

You might be able to recover costs if you discover something odd about the metal.

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What testing did they do to arrive at the diagnosis of engine failure? And what exactly did they say has failed?
I paid the $200 for Kia Diagnosis and all they said is based on the sound they suspect engine failure. Never explained how they tested or what they found. And of course the customer service person did not have a clue so was not very helpful when i asked for more info.

Did this mechanic confirm the previous diagnosis of engine failure? If not, what did he say?
They did agree that there was a slight ticking or knocking. Could not confirm without a engine tear down. But they did feel very confident that neglect of engine maintenance certainly was not the issue.

a couple of links to class action lawsuits which are the same engine lines. Seems that the states have all sorts of customer protection associations. what do we have in Canada?
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...ass-action-lawsuit-targets-engine-oil-defect/
http://www.girardgibbs.com/hyundai-sonata-engine-failure/#mca
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/hyundai-kia-theta-ii-engine-recalls-investigated.shtml
 

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.... They did agree that there was a slight ticking or knocking. Could not confirm without a engine tear down. ...
The indy mechanic saying 'ticking or knocking' throws even more uncertainty into your situation, because ticking noise is not at all uncommon, and may be completely harmless. There are many reports on the KIA and Hyundai forums of Theta engines making ticking noise, and there is lots of discussion related to the cause(s) of the ticking.

However, knocking is normally going to be a lower engine issue, and almost always going to result in a major repair or engine replacement. So it's really important to know which noise your engine is making.

One subject that comes up frequently is oil filter brand. KIA and Hyundai have taken a very strong position that some aftermarket filters can cause various issues with these Theta engines. Although there's no way I can tell you this information is true, I will say I've read one report from someone who replaced an aftermarket filter with a KIA, and claimed a reduction in his engine ticking noise. And I'll also mention that I've used only KIA filters on my DIY oil changes, and have always had a very quiet engine. Again, not proof of anything, just another piece of information. So if you don't have a KIA filter on your vehicle now, it's a simple and easy thing to see if swapping one in makes any difference in your situation.
 

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I got the starter in and the motor started right up. Runs good. I continue to argue with KIA about this issue. Good luck everyone.


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Hey TickTickEngineKnock and Redline!! Hey to all you MODS!?

I think it would be really cool to post this Class Action Investigation for the 2.0L Theta II non-turbo Forte engine knock as a sticky!
http://www.classlawdc.com/2018/02/01/kia-forte-engine-knock-class-action-investigation/

I'm aware of this because now my Fortes 2.0L engine has 94k on it and its knocking pretty bad! Pretty pissed at Kia right now...

Please, Forte owners that have knocking noise occurring, contact these investigative Lawyers. The right thing to do is push on Kia for this one.
 

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... Class Action Investigation for the 2.0L Theta II non-turbo Forte engine ....
The link that you posted is not directed exclusively at the Theta MPI, given that it spans multiple generations, and includes the NU as well. Having two completely different lawsuit targets has to add complexity and confusion to the case, and IMO will make it much more difficult to win.

Sounds to me like they're trying to feed off to the massive Kia/Hyundai Theta GDI/Turbo recalls. But the Theta MPI has never been included in any of those actions, and has no similar major history of failures. As someone with a dog in the race, I've been following this whole thing very closely, and attempt to follow up on any Theta MPI issue I find. Yes, there have been a few MPI failures, but that's also true for any make/model on the planet.

What is the oil change history on your vehicle? Have you identified where the knocking is coming from?
 
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