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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong. Took it to a strip yesterday. Only got 2 runs in but the best one was a 15.5 at 91... running 93 in sport mode with TC and ESC off letting the trans shift flooring from a stop everyone I see online seems to run high 14

Meanwhile using one of those drag apps that track GPS it said I managed to get a 14.6

Utterly confused at the moment
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Quarter mile times can change significantly due to air temperature and physical altitude.

One should NOT judge their times against other's posted times unless information is also available on what the temperature was or where they raced.
 

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Quarter mile times can change significantly due to air temperature and physical altitude.

One should NOT judge their times against other's posted times unless information is also available on what the temperature was or where they raced.
Sure you should compare so you have an idea. DA has an impact that is why the NHRA has a correction factor.

Sea Level, DA +400 ft = 13.75, 13.77, 13.80, 13.86
+1550 ft, DA 4000+ = 13.96, 14.01, 14.08, 14.03

13.75 was stock paper filter, E30 ish, JB4 Map 3. Car ran [email protected] with Sport Mode off. 6 Speed manual.

For DCT's, the biggest issue is low launch RPM. The OP didn't disclose which track he ran at so I can't gauge what he did wrong/right whatever.

Judging by your trap speed of 91 mph, that signals to me that the DA was really high and inlet temps were up, obviously it's summer time.

As I said in another thread, I picked up additional power on the dyno (repeatable) with a few gallons of E85 mixed in. You want to go with the least amount of weight and fuel is about 6-7 lbs per gallon. With a full tank that is over 100 lbs/Tenth of a Second/1 mph.

Dragy is the most accurate GPS performance app. On my 13.75 time slip Dragy said 13.80's. You're saying it's off by over 1/2 a second?

No the car actually ran [email protected] mph. Just because you'll be more comfortable next time it will go a little quicker. That said the bearer of bad news is that the car is capable of low 14's stock, you need low 60ft times and closer to sea level.

Not going to happen in the dead of summer.

Tell me what track was and then I can recommend a course of action.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sure you should compare so you have an idea. DA has an impact that is why the NHRA has a correction factor.

Sea Level, DA +400 ft = 13.75, 13.77, 13.80, 13.86
+1550 ft, DA 4000+ = 13.96, 14.01, 14.08, 14.03

13.75 was stock paper filter, E30 ish, JB4 Map 3. Car ran [email protected] with Sport Mode off. 6 Speed manual.

For DCT's, the biggest issue is low launch RPM. The OP didn't disclose which track he ran at so I can't gauge what he did wrong/right whatever.

Judging by your trap speed of 91 mph, that signals to me that the DA was really high and inlet temps were up, obviously it's summer time.

As I said in another thread, I picked up additional power on the dyno (repeatable) with a few gallons of E85 mixed it. You want to go with the least amount of weight and fuel is about 6-7 lbs per gallon. With a full tank that is over 100 lbs/Tenth of a Second/1 mph.

Dragy is the most accurate GPS performance app. On my 13.75 time slip Dragy said 13.80's. You're saying it's off by over 1/2 a second?

No the car actually ran [email protected] mph. Just because you'll be more comfortable next time it will go a little quicker. That said the bearer of bad news is that the car is capable of low 14's stock, you need low 60ft times and closer to sea level.

Not going to happen in the dead of summer.

Tell me what track was and then I can recommend a course of action.
At edgewater sports park in Cincinnati Ohio. Needless to say I was pretty disappointed disappointed the times. It was only high 70s here yesterday. Trans temp was 4 bars.
 

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Since I don't have the exact day I can't look at the weather forecast on the day that you made your runs.

I can tell you that not all 93 octane is created equally. Car & Driver did [email protected] mph with a 6 speed manual Forte GT late last year.

Look up the launch techniques for the DCT, some say that you can launch the car at 2000 rpm. If you have E85 available to you, calculate the weight of all the fuel. You should have 3 gallons or less in the tank, I've run with 2 gallons in the tank.

Keep it around E20 otherwise the car will go full rich and reduce boost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Since I don't have the exact day I can't look at the weather forecast on the day that you made your runs.

I can tell you that not all 93 octane is created equally. Car & Driver did [email protected] mph with a 6 speed manual Forte GT late last year.

Look up the launch techniques for the DCT, some say that you can launch the car at 2000 rpm. If you have E85 available to you, calculate the weight of all the fuel. You should have 3 gallons or less in the tank, I've run with 2 gallons in the tank.

Keep it around E20 otherwise the car will go full rich and reduce boost.
I've heard these cars aren't flex fuel ready so I haven't even tried. I think my last 93 fill was on speedway gas. Did my runs yesterday. Going back next week to see if anything changes
I've heard you can launch at 2000 by holding revs with brake and gas. Thought about doing embrace launches too but it definently makes me think about clutch wear doing it
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've heard these cars aren't flex fuel ready so I haven't even tried. I think my last 93 fill was on speedway gas. Did my runs yesterday. Going back next week to see if anything changes
I've heard you can launch at 2000 by holding revs with brake and gas. Thought about doing embrace launches too but it definently makes me think about clutch wear doing it
Should also mention runs are on stock kumho tires
 

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People have run deep into the 13's on the stock tires. Some have Michelin tires, others Kumho. Of course they have tunes or JB4's.

A acquaintance of mine recently ran [email protected] mph in his 2019 Veloster Turbo DCT. He ran that on aftermarket tires and wheels but not drag radials or slicks by any means. His 60ft time on that run was 2.35 where he dropped air pressure to about 25 psi.

Today's DA at Edge Water is 2371 ft above sea level. Not horrible but not great either. The track is lake side so temps will never go that high relatively speaking.

Mods won't always help you either. Another acquaintance of mine with a manual six speed car was running mid 14's with an AFe intake, Wagner Intercooler and Evilia axle-back exhaust. His car put down 235 whp without the intercooler. I don't know if it makes that much of a difference. DA was 4000+ feet (Arizona) and ambient was 90 degrees even at 9 pm, it went down to low 80's by the time the back of the staging lanes closed = 11 pm.

This was May not even the middle of summer. I ran [email protected] mph my last time out and that was the second pass of the day.

First past was [email protected]

JB4, Map 7 (water methanol enabled), Sunoco GT-260+ fuel. If I turned off the WMI, it would go even slower than it does at sea level.

I will tell you as I told him, it all depends how serious you want to take it. The car is capable of 12 second ET's with relatively little done, it won't happen on street tires however. That is the problem with this community it was to correlate what happens at the track with regular street surfaces. Unless you run No-Prep events then there is no correlation.

The stock turbo is done around 23 psi as back pressure really becomes an issue, exhaust upgrades won't help not for the expense involved. From there to see any sizable gains you must drop IAT's down as far as you can get them, there is no such thing as too cold. Really cold temps say in the low 50's there's no traction anyway so it doesn't matter.

The other way is jam more oxygen into the engine without heating it up and there is only a few ways to do that.

I was really impressed with the Sunoco fuel, it's very close in performance to E30 blends, which make sense. E85 is blended with 87 octane, while the Sunoco fuel is 13% E85 blended with GT-260 100 octane unleaded. Instead of MTBE, they increase oxygen and octane with E85.

As Flossy Carter would say a defendant GO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
People have run deep into the 13's on the stock tires. Some have Michelin tires, others Kumho. Of course they have tunes or JB4's.

A acquaintance of mine recently ran [email protected] mph in his 2019 Veloster Turbo DCT. He ran that on aftermarket tires and wheels but not drag radials or slicks by any means. His 60ft time on that run was 2.35 where he dropped air pressure to about 25 psi.

Today's DA at Edge Water is 2371 ft above sea level. Not horrible but not great either. The track is lake side so temps will never go that high relatively speaking.

Mods won't always help you either. Another acquaintance of mine with a manual six speed car was running mid 14's with an AFe intake, Wagner Intercooler and Evilia axle-back exhaust. His car put down 235 whp without the intercooler. I don't know if it makes that much of a difference. DA was 4000+ feet (Arizona) and ambient was 90 degrees even at 9 pm, it went down to low 80's by the time the back of the staging lanes closed = 11 pm.

This was May not even the middle of summer. I ran [email protected] mph my last time out and that was the second pass of the day.

First past was [email protected]

JB4, Map 7 (water methanol enabled), Sunoco GT-260+ fuel. If I turned off the WMI, it would go even slower than it does at sea level.

I will tell you as I told him, it all depends how serious you want to take it. The car is capable of 12 second ET's with relatively little done, it won't happen on street tires however. That is the problem with this community it was to correlate what happens at the track with regular street surfaces. Unless you run No-Prep events then there is no correlation.

The stock turbo is done around 23 psi as back pressure really becomes an issue, exhaust upgrades won't help not for the expense involved. From there to see any sizable gains you must drop IAT's down as far as you can get them, there is no such thing as too cold. Really cold temps say in the low 50's there's no traction anyway so it doesn't matter.

The other way is jam more oxygen into the engine without heating it up and there is only a few ways to do that.

I was really impressed with the Sunoco fuel, it's very close in performance to E30 blends, which make sense. E85 is blended with 87 octane, while the Sunoco fuel is 13% E85 blended with GT-260 100 octane unleaded. Instead of MTBE, they increase oxygen and octane with E85.

As Flossy Carter would say a defendant GO.
I'm gonna see if I can launch it any better and drive it really soft to the track. Hopefully I'll get better than a 15.5 lol it was shockingly disappointing
 

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I'm gonna see if I can launch it any better and drive it really soft to the track. Hopefully I'll get better than a 15.5 lol it was shockingly disappointing
Why would it be shocking? Also Flex Fuel is about the engine's controls adjusting to the less energy content of Ethanol, it has nothing to do with tolerating the corrosion issues that are null in modern cars because no rubber remains in the fuel system.

The Forte GT is rated at E15. Going up to 30-40% is not that much more caustic (1) and (2) you can run full E85 with a flash without issue, most people don't do it because of fuel economy reasons and the majority of the population that owns these cars aren't very serious/warranty worry warts/inexperienced.
 

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I'm gonna see if I can launch it any better and drive it really soft to the track. Hopefully I'll get better than a 15.5 lol it was shockingly disappointing
This DCT is weird. Idk if there is a "proper" way to launch it but the ONE time I DID launch it:
1) It felt "weird" like the car was "fighting" against my input of bringing the rpm's up.
2) I got my SLOWEST time ever w/ this car: 7.15 sec

I have yet to try launching again, to me it is not very useful to find out bc I do not go to the drag strip and so I try to keep my runs more "real world" by just flooring it - gotta have the right throttle input, too (when you floor it).
Without launching: my avg is 6.51 sec out of 30 runs o_O I've done w/ a dragy, my 5 best runs: 6.31, 6.36, 6.37, 6.48, 6.53 sec (same results 89 vs 93 - currently running 89)

Like others mentioned, temperatures and DA are very important for best results:




83104
83105
83106



^^^^
Notice the DA and temps. Of course, I do my runs in a NON prepped track, mostly flat and validated by dragy, though.
Stock kumhos (some room for improvement would be my guess in the ET's with stickier tires), no launch, 89 octane.

Here is a DA calculator to play w/: DA calculator « Air Density Online

In that video from a AUSSIE channel, they managed 6.66 km/h (which if not mistaken is roughly 6.3 sec w/ a launch), and most IMPRESSIVELY, a a 158.6 km/h trap speed in a 1/4 mile run, which is supposed to be about 98.5 mph.......I've never been able to get more than 96 mph. so IDK lol

Chances are that since youre at a drag strip youre also idling your car for a little longer waiting for your turn. Add THAT to higher temps, and a non ideal DA, and it could easily make your car run slower.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Why would it be shocking? Also Flex Fuel is about the engine's controls adjusting to the less energy content of Ethanol, it has nothing to do with tolerating the corrosion issues that are null in modern cars because no rubber remains in the fuel system.

The Forte GT is rated at E15. Going up to 30-40% is not that much more caustic (1) and (2) you can run full E85 with a flash without issue, most people don't do it because of fuel economy reasons and the majority of the population that owns these cars aren't very serious/warranty worry warts/inexperienced.
Don't know if I overhyped myself or what I was definently expecting some better numbers I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting to run 14's first pass especially with the dct ill try sunoco 93 I got one right by my house and see what happens. Bone stock I felt like the numbers should've been higher but I guess I'm wrong
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This DCT is weird. Idk if there is a "proper" way to launch it but the ONE time I DID launch it:
1) It felt "weird" like the car was "fighting" against my input of bringing the rpm's up.
2) I got my SLOWEST time ever w/ this car: 7.15 sec

I have yet to try launching again, to me it is not very useful to find out bc I do not go to the drag strip and so I try to keep my runs more "real world" by just flooring it - gotta have the right throttle input, too (when you floor it).
Without launching: my avg is 6.51 sec out of 30 runs o_O I've done w/ a dragy, my 5 best runs: 6.31, 6.36, 6.37, 6.48, 6.53 sec (same results 89 vs 93 - currently running 89)

Like others mentioned, temperatures and DA are very important for best results:




View attachment 83104 View attachment 83105 View attachment 83106


^^^^
Notice the DA and temps. Of course, I do my runs in a NON prepped track, mostly flat and validated by dragy, though.
Stock kumhos (some room for improvement would be my guess in the ET's with stickier tires), no launch, 89 octane.

Here is a DA calculator to play w/: DA calculator « Air Density Online

In that video from a AUSSIE channel, they managed 6.66 km/h (which if not mistaken is roughly 6.3 sec w/ a launch), and most IMPRESSIVELY, a a 158.6 km/h trap speed in a 1/4 mile run, which is supposed to be about 98.5 mph.......I've never been able to get more than 96 mph. so IDK lol

Chances are that since youre at a drag strip youre also idling your car for a little longer waiting for your turn. Add THAT to higher temps, and a non ideal DA, and it could easily make your car run slower.
Most runs are 45 minutes inbetween with the hood popped and the car off. I was considering if something was broken or it might be my driver error. My third car I'm 20 years old coming from a beater 08 focus lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Don't know if I overhyped myself or what I was definently expecting some better numbers I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting to run 14's first pass especially with the dct ill try sunoco 93 I got one right by my house and see what happens. Bone stock I felt like the numbers should've been higher but I guess I'm wrong
This DCT is weird. Idk if there is a "proper" way to launch it but the ONE time I DID launch it:
1) It felt "weird" like the car was "fighting" against my input of bringing the rpm's up.
2) I got my SLOWEST time ever w/ this car: 7.15 sec

I have yet to try launching again, to me it is not very useful to find out bc I do not go to the drag strip and so I try to keep my runs more "real world" by just flooring it - gotta have the right throttle input, too (when you floor it).
Without launching: my avg is 6.51 sec out of 30 runs o_O I've done w/ a dragy, my 5 best runs: 6.31, 6.36, 6.37, 6.48, 6.53 sec (same results 89 vs 93 - currently running 89)

Like others mentioned, temperatures and DA are very important for best results:




View attachment 83104 View attachment 83105 View attachment 83106


^^^^
Notice the DA and temps. Of course, I do my runs in a NON prepped track, mostly flat and validated by dragy, though.
Stock kumhos (some room for improvement would be my guess in the ET's with stickier tires), no launch, 89 octane.

Here is a DA calculator to play w/: DA calculator « Air Density Online

In that video from a AUSSIE channel, they managed 6.66 km/h (which if not mistaken is roughly 6.3 sec w/ a launch), and most IMPRESSIVELY, a a 158.6 km/h trap speed in a 1/4 mile run, which is supposed to be about 98.5 mph.......I've never been able to get more than 96 mph. so IDK lol

Chances are that since youre at a drag strip youre also idling your car for a little longer waiting for your turn. Add THAT to higher temps, and a non ideal DA, and it could easily make your car run slower.
just felt like the car should've been faster than what it ran. Only got 2 runs in though so not a whole lot of data I want to try again and fix Any errors I could've made
 

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just felt like the car should've been faster than what it ran. Only got 2 runs in though so not a whole lot of data I want to try again and fix Any errors I could've made
Personally, I wouldn't go to the drag strip in the summer lol heat soaking is real, even if you only idle for 5-6 minutes, your IAT's will increase.
Even if temperature is only 75F, must consider, humidity, barometer..etc. Play around w/ the DA calc I linked.
 

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Personally, I wouldn't go to the drag strip in the summer lol heat soaking is real, even if you only idle for 5-6 minutes, your IAT's will increase.
Even if temperature is only 75F, must consider, humidity, barometer..etc. Play around w/ the DA calc I linked.
That is why you buy water methanol injection for a car that already has an intercooler already. It would be a different story if the car never came with one and given the price of the Sxth Element and Wagner models which will still suffer from +10-20 over ambient temps while my inlet temps during a run at the strip is 78 degrees (90F ambient). Now that isn't enough to make up for the 4000+ ft DA I was dealing with in Arizona but the car still ran over 100+ mph, however the car did run even slower without it on.

There is growing evidence the stock intercooler is either a a bit of a restriction and/or doesn't shed heat as well as it should.

The evidence is the dyno numbers. 20-25 hp gains by N75 Motorsports owner Daniel and some of his customers. Plus DSport Magazine Project Forte GT which just ended as the car went back to Harmon Corp last week. They gained 20 hp with a Universal Intercooler core and reused the stock pipes.

My quibile is this -

Given the expense of an intercooler upgrade, you have to spend more than I did to hit 250 whp. One of N75's customers a Veloster Turbo made 250 whp and 300 lbs of torque on 91 octane. Mods are N75 tune, Wagner Intercooler and some sort of intake.

The tune reduces torque limits which I have to work with and are working against me. As I made 250 whp and 268 lbs of torque Map 5, E40 JB4 only.

I have more tricks in my bag, I can easily make another 20-30 hp without touching any of the hardware on the car. Traction is the number 1 priority because having to make a good chunk of power to run say 12 second ET's cost much more than hooking it up less power with the same results.

The best way as a tuner/hot rodder is to make the best power based on what gives you the best bang for the buck.

As I've always stated, Mod#1 was the tune, Mod#2 was water methanol injection. Mod#3 I can do anytime I want but I want less whining from those that tend to whine about such things so I am doing it the hard(er) way through traction. Unfortunate for them my 60 ft times are far below what the majority have run thus far.
 
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