Brake discussion

I hate brake fade its a real problem,
Looking at drilled rotors I can see how they may cause more wear and tear on brake pads if drilled wrong etc.
But brake pads are not that costly so even if thats true its not like the end of the world.
But on the other had a warped rotor is very bad news and the first time you ever have a car with this problem you'll never forget it so that would be costly to repalce drilled rotors often.

Other choice of course is bigger
Calipers and bigger rotors.. as mentioned in vid.

I'm thinking the drilled rotors are going to help cool rotors the quickest
and maybe thats why the rotors don't last long because they heat up and cool off so quick
just a theory of mine does not mean I'm exactly right

better calipers and bigger rotors might be the most reliable upgrade.

Here is my 2 cents on the brake issue, if we started another topic I apologize and will remove this post, but my thinking is this, drilled rotors WILL cool faster because there is more air flow around them, because they cool faster it reduces fading. As we all know the only way to stop your car is to remove the energy in the form of HEAT. However, with drilled rotors I believe STOPPING power would be lost because there is less area for the rotors and pads to contact,at least until the point where the rotors can get enough air flow around them to remove heat to make up for the loss in surface area. Slotted rotors, on the other hand have more stopping power because there is more area for contact, but would have more fading because there isnt drillings for air flow. I think playing with different drillings or slots finds that balance between keeping the rotors cool (to reduce fading) and having enough surface area to increase stopping power. I hope that makes sense? If not ignore me, it is all speculation anyway!

Also of note, if you still go the speed limits you don't need the extra braking! but who does that???

havoc_32 said:

Here is my 2 cents on the brake issue, if we started another topic I apologize and will remove this post, but my thinking is this, drilled rotors WILL cool faster because there is more air flow around them, because they cool faster it reduces fading. As we all know the only way to stop your car is to remove the energy in the form of HEAT. However, with drilled rotors I believe STOPPING power would be lost because there is less area for the rotors and pads to contact,at least until the point where the rotors can get enough air flow around them to remove heat to make up for the loss in surface area. Slotted rotors, on the other hand have more stopping power because there is more area for contact, but would have more fading because there isnt drillings for air flow. I think playing with different drillings or slots finds that balance between keeping the rotors cool (to reduce fading) and having enough surface area to increase stopping power. I hope that makes sense? If not ignore me, it is all speculation anyway!

Also of note, if you still go the speed limits you don't need the extra braking! but who does that???

Click to expand...

the slots in the brakes help direct air and help cool them.. remember "FADE" is not usually because of hot rotors.. there are many other reasons aside from heat.. prolonged hard braking will cause fade from heat ..however you shouldnt be in that situation if you are.. well then .. you're doing it wrong lol

"The fluid within the brake fluid boils and releases gases causing spongy braking as unlike fluids gases are compressible. The heat build up can adversely affect the friction and even cause warping or distortion of the brake components, so brake fade in these cases will still have a firm pedal but the conversion of momentum into heat cannot effectively happen so the car does not slow up. All cars are susceptible to brake fade but driver habits can be a major cause!

When you use your brakes you are converting the forward momentum of the car into heat. The heat will build up on the disks where it will be dissipated into the air. The pads will also get warm and this heat will also transfer along the pistons and calipers into the brake fluid and if water is present you are likely to experience brake fade as the water heats up and boils. The heat can also cause the brake hoses to expand a little reducing the hydraulic pressure even further."


those are other reason for brake fade..

also 1 bout of really hard braking would do it but generally that causes warp before fade.. unless it's hard braking spaced out (ie at the track i've experienced it .. but it goes away after the car totally cools so i'm willing to bet it's from boiling fluid or expanding lines)..

and just to add to the whole brake debate

i've seen ads and articles about the stronger, tougher,more upppmh for your brakes.......

so does anyone have any real world experience w/changing out the brakelines w/the "better" ones?

all the ads/articles swear that you can instantly feel the brakes feel "better"

(slotted vs drilled- not having ever had either- the slot w/the inner layer w/the curved thingies- makes more sense- and thats the last of my science for today ")

well- not exactly the last of my science notes-
more like - discuss among us kinda notes-
nascar - just as an example- there are plenty of pictures showing seriously big air hoses running from front of the car to the braking system.


the rotors get hot, the calipers get hot, the brakelines get hot, and yes- the brake fluid gets hot.
(so why hasnt anyone figured out a "brake system coolant system" yet?)


oh yeah- has any one here jumped up the size of their brake rotors yet?
(from what i've see- they are out there for the fortes)

Although I don't consider myself an expert on brakes I would like to share my experience with brakes with you folks. I've been working with drums/rotors since 1976 on heavy equipment vehicles (buses). And pretty much they haven't changed (generally) much in operation. It's main job is to stop a vehicle or slow down to a safe speed. The other thing is noise, anytime you have two different material making contact, it will make noise. And that can be real distracting factor or worse uncomfortable to the human ear. That's why the drums/rotors are machined in a special way to bring down the noise to a minimal so that the human ear cannot pick it up. That's why it's recommended that you always have your drums/rotors machined when your doing a brake job on your ride. Otherwise several problems will arise. For example pulsating brake pedal, weak brakes, pulling while braking and that notorious noise (squeaking or worse vibrating noise). And the most over looked, getting grease or oil (even dirt) on a machined surface while installing your drum/rotor. Yes, this can be a major cause of noise also. Most drum/rotor are made of cast iron or cast steel, they have to be porous for cooling but in turn oil, dirt or grease can get into these tiny little holes and even shooting brake clean will not get it all out. They also clog the pores in the metal thus over heating may occur.
Unlike drum brakes, the disc pads are constantly touching the rotor so you still will have friction (minimum) at hand. This is for preventing foreign objects getting in between the rotor and pad, also displacing water more quickly so that your brakes will work more efficiently.
As for drilled or slotted rotors? This debate has been with us since the birth of the brake rotor. Originally the drilled rotor theory was born due to weight problems for racing. Back then cast iron was the only choice and you all know cast iron is heavy. But with modern technology in metal alloys, it seems the weight problem has been eliminated (well almost).
Slotted rotors, well I don't understand that, anytime you want to eliminate heat, fins are used to displace heat more efficiently.
I totally agree with elecblue06, an inline cooling system would be great but unfortunately science hasn't caught up with that yet (soon I hope). And if you want better brakes other than stock, the larger diameter is the way to go (the racing community has proven that).
A very good subject elecblue06, brakes are the most over looked unsung hero. A wise old man once said to me (a master brake specialist) *no matter how fast or slow you go, sooner or later you have to stop* .
Brakes has been with us since the horse and wagon days, it's basic concept hasn't changed much since then (with the exception of the air brake). It's the most basic design in the vehicle to date but the most important piece of the whole puzzle.
I can go on and on but enough said (sometimes I talk/type too much) . I hope this information has helped bring some basic understanding to how brakes functions on a vehicle. If not I hope it made some interesting reading. Best Regards and Aloha