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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please read my short story. I've tried my best to compress a month's worth of agony into one thread. I would greatly appreciate any advice. Especially if you have experience working on these cars.....

~Larry

I own a 2010 Forte EX with 16k miles on it. A month ago, I heard a strange sound coming from under the hood that sounded like a rattling, especially when turning into my parking lot at work. NO WARNING LIGHTS. The next morning, while I was refueling, I decided to check the dipstick (who checks their dipstick during refueling anymore?). It was bone dry. I added a quart. Still dry. I added another and still dry. A third quart just touched the tip. Since I was only a mile from home, I took it back and parked it. I had no time to mess with it and drove my trusty 2004 Astro to work. Still, NO WARNING LIGHT. This really sucks because I bought the car so save money at the pumps and now I'm back to 19mpg in the van with a new car in the driveway. When I got home from work at the end of the day, I put the car on my ramps to find a soaked oil filter and signs of a leakage all the way back to the muffler.

I know what you're thinking.... This Forte is my 10th car and I've conducted my own oil changes for the last 21 years. I did not double-gasket it. I proved this when I went ahead and did the oil and filter change. It also was not too loose, or too tight. According to the service department (read below), it was still my fault.

I completed the oil change and ran the car in my driveway for 10 minutes (as I always do) for signs of leaks. No leaks. Still NO WARNING LIGHTS. Then my daughter and I attempted to go the store, and behold, the CHECK ENGINE (NOT the Oil Light) illuminates. This was accompanied with a loss of power and rough running. I didn't get to the end of the street before I turned around and parked it back in my driveway. I immediately call Kia 24 hour roadside and had the car towed to my nearest dealer for service.

What transpired over the next 3 weeks was constant deliberation between the service manager, factory rep (whom I wasn't allowed to talk to directly), Kia Customer Support, and the Regional Customer Support. Long story short... I'm a liar. I botched the oil change. The warning lights work. The code says oil starvation. We didn't think to test the sensor and it's too late now because the motor is already torn down revealing fried bearings and a scored camshaft. That'll be $2177.09, and you can sign here. We won't be covering that under warranty. "We're going to maintain or position on this Mr. Beatty."

It took a couple days to get over it, but I did. There are others less fortunate that couldn't afford the repair. Maybe I did screw something up. Doubtful, but if that makes me feel better about dropping that kind of dough, then whatever. I was almost over it, then......

I get home from work tonight with my first full day back with the car. What the hell is that noise coming from under the hood? My trained ear tells me it's a vacuum leak. I can hear the puffing. It's in sequence with the engine. (Here's the technical part) On the driver's side of the engine, just below the plastic engine head cap, there are three vacuum lines lined up one on top of the other. The lower of the three is not connected. It runs down the firewall an appears to go under the car. I can see the hose pinched in behind the other two lines. The clamp is located forward on the rubber hose next to the other one on the other end. The yellow paint the mechanic placed is evident on both the clamp and the receiving line. Still, NO WARNING LIGHTS.

It was a relatively simple task for me to re-connect the line. However, I have no idea what this line's purpose is. I immediately call Kia Customer Service because my local service department was closed and I felt compelled to document my findings. They also didn't know the purpose of this line. They promised I would get a call back from the regional office tomorrow.

I'm left wondering, "What if that causes other problems that they'll try to pin on me too?". Again, I had NO WARNING LIGHTS; and again, It was me who discovered the problem by being a semi-knowledgeable, responsible owner. How can I further convince KIA about this reoccurring issue and get my money back?

About me..... I am an 18-year active duty U.S. Coast Guardsman. My military veteran readers can attest; we don't do any maintenance without a Procedure Card, or a Checklist. I compare what I found under my hood to what I look for in my subordinates. I have to ask, "If you missed this MINOR detail, what MAJOR details can I expect you to miss?". In my line of work of Search & Rescue execution, missing a minor detail can determine if someone lives or dies. What could happen to this car on my way to work going 65mph on the beltway? It's a damn vacuum line within open view of an open hood! What else did they miss! Could my daughter become an orphan tomorrow?

Maybe a little dramatic; but I'm stumped and pissed. Kia Customer service claims to be my advocate. I'm not feeling it. When I thought about it.... The Kia Company, the Dealership, my Insurance Company, the finance complany, and Sunoco, for that matter, are all making money off me. Not one individual has stepped up to be my advocate. So there's you, my readers. I request your input.....

Thank you for reading my thread. I'd be most appreciative if you could offer any advice. If you choose not to write on this forum, please feel free to write me at my personal email. It's [email protected] . I will post updates as they arrive.

Sincerely,

~Larry
 

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2021 Forte GT w/GT2, Currant Red, SXTH Element Intercooler Kit, Evilla Exhaust, Takeda S2 Intake
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Sorry you're having problems...I can understand your frustration. Your story isn't easy to follow -- but I'm sure in your state of mind it's a little hard to slow down and check it over. It looks like you're saying you changed the oil, checked it for 10 minutes, and then drove it down the street when you ended up with oil starvation. You didn't say you saw oil on the ground...yet you checked it and had to put oil in it? If this is true it sounds like you forgot to fill the engine with oil! My second oil change I did (35 years ago) I did exactly that -- I put the filter on and then ran it to check for leaks...and fortunately realized I didn't put any oil in the block after getting out from under the car!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your reply. The quick timeline is as follows:

1. Heard sound
2. Checked dipstick while refueling to find dry dipstick. no light.
3. Added 3qt to get home and parked until I got home that night. no light.
4. Ramped and conducted diagnostic and found evidence of oil loss. no light.
5. Conducted oil (definately added oil) and filter change. no light. no leaks.
6. drove 200yds, check engine light came on, loss of power
7. parked and had towed
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ForteSX2.4,

I just read your thread again and it takes me back to a memory of my first car. A 77 Aspen. I double-gasketed a filter and loaded my dad's driveway up with oil. It was the first, and last time I did that. I think it had something to do with the severe ass chewing I took and and scrub brush. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I'm smiling again...

~Larry
 

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ForteSX2.4,

I just read your thread again and it takes me back to a memory of my first car. A 77 Aspen. I double-gasketed a filter and loaded my dad's driveway up with oil. It was the first, and last time I did that. I think it had something to do with the severe ass chewing I took and and scrub brush. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I'm smiling again...

~Larry
At least you got a scrub brush, and not a tooth brush. ;)

Good luck with your forte, if you could have, I would have not connected the line and used your other vehicle in the mean time until the service center was open, and brought it in telling them something was wrong and having them realize they screwed up or whatever. But maybe it's unrelated, who knows... good luck
 

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Let's look at this logically and not emotionally - when you first bought the car, we can assume it had oil in it to the correct level. It ran perfectly fine for thousands of miles. Now its due for an oil change [you mention 16K - was that the first oil change?] Then you decided to change the oil yourself and the engine becomes 'oil starved' and you get stuck with a $2177.09 bill [that's a very expensive oil change] . Kia maintains that it was your fault, and you maintain it was not your fault. Now while I do feel your pain emotionally and financially, I just wonder 'logically' if this would have happened had you not changed your oil that day?
 

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Larry...30 yrs.ago u might have had a chance.....

Not too many people liked "Arco Graphite" cuz it looked like used, dirty oil right out of the can...!!! But if you almost ran out of oil....all that residual graphite could keep some engines from burning up for quite a while...!?!??:rolleyes:

Aside from that I always worry about the same thing, but I still like crawling under the car and looking around, choosing and changing my own oil. The one thing I have done is stop in at the dealer and always buy an OEM filter. For my own good, this helps me keep the receipts, and the oil receipts, and I log when I change it.

The hard part.....not screwing up...cuz it's gonna be your fault... and they know they got ya. Keeping my cars in a garage lets me keep a close eye on what's dripping from the bottom of the car. Oil checks are usually once a week....just from sheer paranoia...!!!:eek:

You're not alone......the first oil change on my 1st. "new car" back in 1980, I managed to dump 4 fresh quarts of oil right into my dad's back lawn...burning a crater into the grass. I forgot to put the drain plug back in. Now I had no more oil and had to take the bus downtown for more oil, and hitchhike back to finish the job.:D

But....the lessons that cost $$$$$$ are the one's that REALLY dig into ya..!!! If you continue your oil changes, you can be sure you'll be checking that dipstick more often than you ever did before..!!!
 

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The vacuum line that you heard and reconnected sounds like the fuel tank purge line, which would set a DTC and give a MIL (malfunction indicator light, or check-engine light) I believe it's after two drive cycles. It's a pretty minor thing, and out of all the things to miss, I'd prefer it to any of the others. We're humans, we all make mistakes - Lord knows I've missed a hose clamp a few times. Sometimes it's a vacuum line... one time it was a lower rad hose. We try to learn from it, and better ourselves...

Oil starvation is not actually a code itself, that I know of. There are a multitude of codes set by it, and the resulting damage done, but the oil pressure has it's own light, exclusively. Unfortunately it is not a "low oil" light, it's a "completely out of oil" light. Literally one cup of engine oil can be enough to keep it from illuminating. That's why you didn't see something until it's too late.

Kia rarely takes as strong of a stand as they have against you. I have been floored by the repairs I have done - under warranty - when the evidence is overwhelming against the owner for abuse and neglect. So I have to assume that the evidence they have in your case is absolutely bullet proof, as they will NOT want a lawsuit. They must feel they have a completely airtight case, otherwise why would they risk litigation over $2k?
 

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Wow... you would think that a "Low-Engine-Oil" light would be a standard precautionary feature on most cars.. My 03 Tahoe has it, and so did my 94 T-bird... Just one more reason why I won't do my own oil changes. I'm going to start checking my oil now, but If I remember correctly, someone in some other thread mentioned engine oil being "Low" after using the car for "a while", and it returned to normal once the car cooled all the way.

This makes me think: what if our car OVERHEATS, and blows a gasket? we don't have a light for that, OH WAIT it's our fault because we should have known that the engine's temperature was in the red... oh wait, WE DON'T HAVE A TEMPERATURE GAGE... Thanks KIA, I guess I should have paid more for the SX just to be safe...

I'm sorry for your pains cglarry
I believe there is a TSB saying that you must use the KIA oil filter due to some "quality" issues with generics (even though only 3 companies in the whole world make all the oil filters in the world, including OEM). KIA is acting like their usual selves. CRAPPY... just like their quality assurance department...
 

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Completely agree with you Anthony. We should be warned of these issues before it's an issue instead of when it's an issue! My biggest concern has been the lack of a temperature guage. Really? I thought something like that was so standard, really weird they would only put it in the SX like it's some type of luxury.

And as for you Larry, sorry to hear your troubles. It sounds like you've gone through the appropriate steps and from my experience when I've had to go up to Regional I got what I wanted. I'm defintely gonna check my oil more often now because of this.
 

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Kia is following a host of other manufacturers who are not putting temp gauges in. This is nothing new... it's just different. We don't have voltmeters or oil pressure gauges, either... but 20 years ago it was tough to find a car that didn't.

Kia coolant temp sensors only work when they are wet, and 99% of overheating is due to the coolant going out leaving the sensor dry. So really, not much info there to relay to the driver. If you're really interested in adding a coolant temp gauge to your car (or a volt meter or oil pressure gauge) let me know and I'll let you know what wires are what.
 

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Does getting the aftermarket gauges that plug into the OBDII help or will you still have to install sensors?
 

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I'd like to know more about what wires are what for gauges..

On another note lack of gauges is not that new I've seen this in luxry cars like my old 1970 cadillac coupe devile it only had a alt gauge.
 

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I'm gonna have to agree with KiaTech, I seriously doubt they would hold such a stance for only $2000. The problem with doing oil changes yourself, is that you're allowing the dealer to have one more reason to suspect you of being at fault. Is it worth that $10 savings? Not to me, I've put up with a lot of dealership bullcrap to know that I'd rather just have them do all my service work.
 

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the car is fully insured, right?


so just park it in c-----d town and leave the keys in it.

next day report it stolen.

end of problems.
 

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Kia is following a host of other manufacturers who are not putting temp gauges in. This is nothing new... it's just different. We don't have voltmeters or oil pressure gauges, either... but 20 years ago it was tough to find a car that didn't.

Kia coolant temp sensors only work when they are wet, and 99% of overheating is due to the coolant going out leaving the sensor dry. So really, not much info there to relay to the driver. If you're really interested in adding a coolant temp gauge to your car (or a volt meter or oil pressure gauge) let me know and I'll let you know what wires are what.

ok-
i really want to see the scematics for the oil pressure lines,
the coolant temp lines, and while we are at it...the volt lines.........
and if you can come up with any good recommendations for companies that have the gauges.......i think a lot of people would be happy.........


seriously- i hate the fact that car companies are going to such crapasitic on/off signals instead of true graphs.......why???


i love my lil SXy but i hate the lack of guages.....
 

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If you leave the keys in it then it wont be covered by insurance as stolen.

Also, I was interested in getting a 3 guage pod for either my a-pilar or for right overtop the clock in the dash so I could get oil-pressure, water-temp and tranny temp (if they have a tranny temp sensor somewhere in the vehicle). Any insight on those?
 

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Man I understand you pain but I dont undertand what you are talking about yourself.. seem strange to me.

look: here : This Forte is my 10th car and I've conducted my own oil changes for the last 21 years.

And then youre telling this: About me..... I am an 18-year active duty U.S. Coast Guardsman.

What are you trying to do man? Sorry but if you are telling a lie to us...thats why KIA dont believe you also...
I hope youare not telling a lie...
Your pain with your car is very heavy.. I dont want that pain.
 

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Man I understand you pain but I dont undertand what you are talking about yourself.. seem strange to me.

look: here : This Forte is my 10th car and I've conducted my own oil changes for the last 21 years.

And then youre telling this: About me..... I am an 18-year active duty U.S. Coast Guardsman.

What are you trying to do man? Sorry but if you are telling a lie to us...thats why KIA dont believe you also...
I hope youare not telling a lie...
Your pain with your car is very heavy.. I dont want that pain.
I believe he means that he has been in the Coast Guard for 18 Years.
 
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