[punksmurph]

Incase people miss the link.

 

[punksmurph]

honestly, who cares how it compares. piggyback systems are great and all, but most tuners want something plug and play so they can bring their car into a dealer and not get the hassle of warranty arguments. the aem fuel/air ignition controller also looks to need wire splicing... honestly anything that needs wire splicing shouldn't be over 250 unless you get at least 20 more horses out of an N/A engine that has been factory tuned a$$ backwards like the forte has. each gear seems to have it's own personality which makes no sense. I really wish someone would break the code and it could just be hooked up to a laptop and tuned with a program like HPTuners or Trifecta. Mind you, I am not knocking this piggyback product, it probably takes care of the random gear personality and gives you a bit more power...but, most people don't want to splice wires... then again we also have to accept the Kia market isn't as booming as some others... plus it's easier to tune cars that are already F/I.

Here is the issue with NA cars and power gains, you start with little so you gain little. I dropped a grand on NA parts for my Suzuki SX4 and gained a whole 30 HP at the wheels and about 2 MPG, and the only issue SX4 owners have is how rich the stock car runs. I spent $5K on a turbo for the SX4 to doubled my HP, got the same MPG, and not lose drivability. Speed cost money when you start so far down. For my new Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart I can spend $500 and gain 80 HP, of course the car comes stock with a turbo and 235HP to start. Each gain is going to be larger to start with.

Like you said Kia is not a popular option for tuners, the crowd is small right now and parts will be hard to come buy and expensive. You don't have a Plug n Play option for ECU tuning, AEM does not list Kia for its harness extensions! Even then the AEM FIC is $427-$600 and you still have to get it tuned. The RRM Piggy Back is $429 and already comes tuned for you. With both options you have to splice, find a good electronics tech and the dealers will never know. Also I have never seen a sub 250HP engine get 20HP from just a tune. Now get an intake, headers, exhaust and tune the car on 91 then you will get 20HP from tuning it properly, thats on top of the minor gains you get from the other parts.

Forte owners are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to people who are going to put serious money into parts for the car. When the company that races Fortes does not care enough to produce product after more than a year you know that there is just not enough demand for a return. Also Kia does not want the Forte ECU to be broken, there is a lot of code they would rather not have you touch, they are not tuner friendly as Subaru or Mitsubishi.

 

[punksmurph]

Your high horse...get off.

I was agreeing with you. Any "gain" under 10whp is considered "dyno noise" and shouldn't really be looked as an improvement. So all the variables you stated is what can cause inaccurate readings on a dyno. I'm just telling everyone that what you just explained is correct and "THIS" needs to be read again.

So what your saying is that you dispute any dyno claim that is not at least what? 10HP? 20HP? TurboKits.com claimed +6HP on a dyno, do you dispute that as well? Not all parts make large gains, and if you can manage conditions then a dynometer is an accurate representation of power. I would like to point out that this was done in SoCal in fall, so the weather outside is ideal for these sorts of measurements.

 

[punksmurph]

I kinda get it. For me the piggyback is not worth it rather get the fic. And thats true paying 450 for 6hp for me is a rip off, want someone to crack are ecu 's , because down here, there are tuners whos reflash have gotten 15 and 20 hp to the stock lancer 2.0 with stupid mods, and the cost is just 250 dyno included.

I know a lot of Lancer guys and I have never seen 20HP gain from a tune for a 2.0L, maybe the Ralliart 2.0L Turbo but not the base 2.0L. RPW was able to get 5HP gain from a full tune on a car with just a HKS filter, but not 20HP. I think that ideas of power are way out of line. Heck even Works only got 4HP and 6 lbs/ft out of a flash. These are reputable companies that put a lot of time and effort into the Lancer and that is the gain they get. The piggy makes the same number and you can tune it down the line when you have future mods.

I am currently working on tuning my 3rd car I have owned, and I have help a couple other friends with theirs. In my experience with all the different makes and models I have never seen the gains at the price you guys want. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. One day there may be a plug and play ECU option but it will cost you, in my experience around $500-$600. The cheapest I have ever seen a car tunned is the Evo, but there is a ton of support for the car and competition lowers prices.

 

[punksmurph]

punksmurph...I have issues with dyno tests used to sell a product...not because I think a company willfully alters the readings but because of the minimal experience i've had with having tested my own cars on dynos. I have pulled three runs back-to-back with the same car, on the same dyno, with no changes and seen different readings each time. Differences as much as 7 HP! With results like that I find it hard to believe a single product that produces a small change can be accurately identified. It is even possible that TK's dyno run may have shown 6 HP gain but the real overall gain could have been higher -- if that particular run was actually one of the worst for the car at that time.

Another issue too is altering -- the owner/operator of the dyno I last used was able to adjust the readings...how do you control that?

And finally...the way you run a dyno is not the same as when you floor your car at the dragstrip (for example). I believe the engine often makes more HP in real use Vs a dyno. Why? Because on the dyno you take the engine to 2K RPM to start the test. On the street/strip you floor it off idle (Auto) or "pop" the clutch (manual) at a higher RPM to get a good jump. The dyno doesn't "see" these "takeoffs".

Me personally, I like to see dragstrip results (1/8 mile or 1/4 mile) -- I think these show whether or not a product really works.

I understand what you mean, early on I felt the same way you did. But then I watch my friend turn in results at the strip and on autocross courses. It is one thing to have a skeptical eye but another to come on here and say that Dynos are not accurate representations when your experience is limited. I have seen it myself were a dyno can throw a bad number, it is just like any other test, sometimes you get garbage, just reset and do it again. I watched by car put down 3 dyno runs at 205-208HP when I was retuning my turbo SX4, 4 pull was 386HP! It happens, TurboKits gives the lowest value because they feel that is the best way to represent the product, most companies do the same or they average 5-6 pulls and give out a number.

Search the net and look at how trusted shops are. I can hardly find a bad word about TK, RRM has a great rep with the Mitsubishi, Suzuki, and Tiburon crowd. I can find negatives about both shops, TK has taken flack for kits from other companies they sell; RRM had hassles with NSPP product for Genesis Coup guys. Every company has its hiccups, it is how they respond that matters, RRM has worked very well with the SX4 and Kizashi communities (I run the largest SX4 Forum on the net) and there is a lot of respect for them. I hold TK in high regards for the way they approach customers and work on meeting their needs. I just feel that people have been super unfair when it comes demands on price and performance. These shops have been working for a long time and know what they are doing, they prove it with great product.

Until there is a reason not to trust them and comes with some really strong evidence I wish people would be less difficult with vendors. This is how a car losses support.

 

[punksmurph]

WEL COME TO PUERTO RICO AND YOU WILL SEE IT ON A DAILY BASIS, 20 HP WITH INTAKE EXHAUST AND A REFLASH DONT BELIVE ME GO TO YOUTUBE AND TYPE LANCER REFLASH AND YES THE COST IS 250. AND HERE YOU GOhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alHT6wt8JhA

Different story, the car has an intake and exhaust, when tunned properly you will see a good gain. I bet if you got an intake, exhaust and tune on the Forte you will see the same, but you have to tune the car for it. The numbers provided are FOR A STOCK CAR!

 

[punksmurph]

I don't understand why people are cracking on this piggyback so much. So what if it only gives ur car 6 more horse if ur running stock.... hardly anyone that's gonna be running this system will have a stock engine setup anyway. If you have say an exhaust, lightweight pulley, high flow cat and an intake you'll see more then 6 horse... I'd really consider this even if u do have to splice wires where I am in Florida dealerships are stupid and probably wouldn't even notice it.. just my 2 cents

Absolutely true about dealers, you can run the wiring so that it is unnoticeable for unless the dealer was really taking things apart. When I had a piggyback it was placed low and out of sight, if there is enough cable length then you could even place it inside the cabin with you and run the wire out to the ECU. The real gains with this are when you start bolting on other parts and then retune the car.

 

[punksmurph]

One question I got is if running 91 octane gas on top of say all the bolt on mods will help you get even more horse or torque out of this unit. Their site says it can run on 87 but I'd think running on a better fuel would help the fuel curves a little

I don't know if this unit can change your timing or not, you would have to move timing in order to take advantage of 91. I upgraded to a piggy at one point that did change timing when I had a whole NA set up with headers, intake, pulley, and exhaust. I had it tunned after all the parts were installed and jumped about 10 extra HP. The SX4 baselined at 95WHP, then before a tune it was around 128WHP, then I hit 138WHP before I just turbo'd the car.