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ecko, agreeing to disagree is a nice thing to say but it rarely solves anything.

I understand that the cost of winter tires + rims is not a fun expense and I'd rather spend the money elsewhere too. But, based on your post, I'd say you're not really calculating things correctly. I mean this with all due respect. Consider my points:

1. You wrote: "When I buy a car brand new with less than 10 miles on it, I don't expect to have to buy one single thing for it."

Firstly, I don't know which tires are sold with the Kia in the USA. In Canada they come with some Good Year tires that I've read wear out very quickly. Disappointing, but not totally unexpected since car manufacturers are all about profit.

So for those like myself still researching the car, we have 2 options. 1. We can sell the tires on ebay. 2. We can use this in our purchase negotiations. We often joke that the price of a new car doesn't even include tires; sadly this is somewhat true with Kia (based on the overwhelming posts about the poor quality of the stock tires). I won't really hold my breath that the dealer will give me a discount based on this fact nor will I expect them to replace the tires with something of quality, so I will factor in an extra $700 for a new set summer tires within 20 000km of use on those stock tires.

Do you really think it's reasonable to expect not to pay anything more after making a purchase of a new item? The car was sold with tires not meant for winter. So if I call Kia and complain about the poor winter handling of the car compared to some of my older cars, what do you think they will answer me? They will of course say to fit the car with the proper tires for my driving conditions. Older cars had smaller dimensions, smaller tire widths etc, so of course they handled better in winter conditions. But how did they handle on dry conditions compared to your new Kia? I imagine you bought your new Kia for a few reasons and that you normally appreciate the car handling characteristics in normal driving conditions.

I agree with you that Kia should supply a better tire, but for summer conditions, not for replacing the need to install winter tires.

2. You wrote: "Since I live in the Ohio snowbelt, winters can get pretty bad"

This makes is super clear that you should not even be attempting to drive a car with anything but proper winter tires. Leave the past in the past. Yes, I also drive without any major problems or accidents without winter tires (in Montreal). Was that smart? Not at all. Yes I made it through even with a very dangerous combination of front used winter tires with studs & rear almost bare summer tires. That was utterly stupid but we got by. Looking back, even with financial difficulties, the priority should have been to install 4 new winter tires. Saving a few hundred dollars was not worth the risk. Of course when we're younger we never think anything is going to happen to us. But it infuriates me to no end when I read ppl write that they should still have the right to use a tire not meant for winter based solely on the fact that they 'never had a problem before'. It's like saying you wear running shoes in winter and never fell before. Great, but does not mean you won't fall tomorrow when you would not have fallen had you put on some proper boots.

3. You wrote: "I think driving smart in the snow is just as if not more important that snow tires considering most people I know drive without snow tires."

I partially agree. Yes, driving smart is important. We all know that you can have the best handling car with the best tires and then drive irresponsibly and hurt yourself and others. So for sure you need to drive just like you wrote in your post: taking it easy, not rushing etc. This will definitely keep you and others out of the hospital emergency rooms. In fact, I took a special winter driving course and came out of it thinking that it is something that everyone should be forced to take before getting their license. There are some simple common sense driving techniques that give you confidence and the ability to avoid accidents. I recommend everyone take even just a simple course of that type. They should be available in most areas where snow is a way of life.

But unfortunately even the most careful responsible educated driver might come across a split-second driving situation where they are at the mercy of the equipment their driving. And the reality is that, no matter how great a car we drive, it is held to the road with the tires. That's why we need the right tire for the right car for the right conditions.

All-season tires (often called 'no-season') tires are simply not meant for winter conditions. They become hard as a rock below freezing and totally deprive your car of much needed grip. I'm sure you know all this already or you can do the search for this yourself. You will not find a single source (internet or other) that won't recommend the use of winter tires for winter conditions.

The benefits far outweigh the extra cost. But please do keep in mind my point that you are actually not paying that much after all because you extend the life of your summer tires.

Driving with summer tires in winter is scary (as you experienced). Driving with proper winter tires is actually fun.

I've read through many forums about this and it still frustrates me that some people still mention 'but i've never had a problem in the past'. Leave the past behind and forget what your friends are doing. Set the example and do things right.

Here in Montreal, winter tires are now mandatory from Dec 15 to Mar 15. There was so much resistance at first especially from those who said they never had a problem before. Yet the statistics clearly showed that the majority of winter accidents (major or minor) involved at least one car without proper winter tires. Since the new law, the number of winter accidents has gone down significantly.

I still wrote to the government of Quebec about the law because, although I agree with it, I think it comes up short in one area. The flaw in that the law does not require the use of proper summer tires in summer time. So unfortunately we have a lot of lazy ppl here who decide to drive through all summer using their winter tires. These wear out quickly and they then drive the next winter on those tires. This despite the knowledge that winter tires simply do not handle well in hot conditions and have longer breaking distances in hot/wet conditions. So it's not the right tire for summer because it was designed for cold winter conditions. Unfortunately I got a generic response from the government saying they had no plans to enforce proper tire use for summers.

I don't know that the laws are like in your area but I urge you to just drive on the safest tire you can for winter. It's simply not worth the risk and does not cost you as much as you think it will. The choice is up to you though.
 

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Topspin......I agree with you wholeheartedly on allot of these issues...Maybe not the boots part. I have never fallen on the ice in 34 years that I can recall but if I ever do, then I will get back up and dust off the snow. I've seen people in boots fall too! Haha....I'm just making light of this because it's a matter of opinion and I'm not here to argue. You bring up very valid points, and I think I did too. That's why I said we can agree to disagree. As far as topic #2, I feel you are 100% correct. I have done the same thing in previous winters.

My point is I am buying a new car. Why should I have to reach deep in my wallet, throw out a good down payment for a car that has one of the best safety ratings in it's class but then Kia throws on shit tires that obviously aren't safe? Until I bought this new car I knew nothing of forums until I was walking out and the Salesperson mentioned going on forums to find out about upgrading things on the car. I will just be honest and say I don't have the money for new tires. Not now. I won't go into my financial situation but I just can't justify $500 in tires right now. If I hit something, and hopefully it's only minor that is why I have very good full coverage insurance. I did say I rectified the problem by throwing on used Goodyear Eagle Gt's and that helped tremendously. Maybe you don't like the tires, and everyone has a opinion on a brand, but they gave me back my confidence. Never said they were the best tire but they are better that what I had originally and never gave me problems in the snow in 2 previous winters.

So I am going to end this by saying you're right on many levels...but I will do what is best for me and that is the best I can do.....
 

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When saying Kia puts on poor tires to begin with it is not just Kia. Every new car foreign or domestic I have owned came with poor tires from the factory. It always seems that when I shopped and purchased my first set of tires they lasted at least double the original tires. The one time this did not hold true was Pirelli tire which had great grip but the shortest life or any tire I have ever seen. My guess was too soft a rubber compound.

We had a little snow and ice here not as much as Ohio or Canada gets but with the Nexen tires I have it handled fine. I am sure it will be better when I buy my first set of tires. I agree that an all season tire should be fine in the winter or that classification should be eliminated from all tires. A person should not have to buy new tires with a new car purchase just for winter or the car should come with a 2nd set of wheels for winter tires from the dealer. I can't say how the winters are in Ohio but in areas like Canada with a winter tire law it would be an expected expense whether a new car or a used car.
 

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Spicy.....I can only comment on Kia because I have never owned a new car to know what other car companies put on their cars. My fiance also bought her Forte Sedan the same time I did. Hers came with Nexen as well and she has had no problems in the snow like I have had with my Hankooks.

As far as Ohio....It all depends on where you live. I live in the snowbelt so at a moments notice 6" of snow can develop into 18" of snow if the Lake effect kicks in. Sometimes it can be horrible, and sometimes you expect the worst and nothing happens. So far it's been mild. We've had 2 good sized storms so far this winter.

I will agree that supplying everyone with winters tires isn't logical, but in the states where it is needed, maybe Kia could offer a small voucher for winter tires or if we choose we can pay the difference between the all-season and winter tires. That would be nice but realistically would never happen. I agree with topspin, everyone probably should have winter tires but I just never in my wildest dreams thought I would need new tires, for a new car with 10 miles on it. Like I said I am a new car newbie so I didn't research it because I never heard anyone say anything about it. Next season I will for sure get winter shoes. Definitely!
 

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Here they shut down the city with about 1" of snow. Some people still have to get to work either way. It does benefit those that have to go in since their is much less traffic.

My last couple were bought new Dodge and a Chevy pickup and they put on cheap highway tires to get the best fuel economy that don't last long. For my wife we have had Honda, Nissan and Mazda all 3 had cheap all season tires that didn't last long. 2 other kids had the Chevy Cobalt and for every car the OEM tires were not very good. I have come to accept that the OEM tires on all new cars are low quality but it is not logical to replace them as soon as you leave the lots.

It does sound like you could use some snow tires with that much snow. For the little snow I get here in TN I will stick with all season tires.
 

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ecko what model hankooks did you get? I've had hankooks 426/418 on my cars for the last five years and never had to change em once even in the snow.. I absolutely love those tires... Only problem was the cars they were on got smashed... That's why i'm getting the hankook I-pikes for my snows and the Hankook Ventus V12's for the summer, If anyone is interested in all seasons the hankook H727 is the best on the market with a 100,000 mile tread life warranty... This is both a proffessional and personal opinion as I make my living off selling tires.. I'm upfront and honest with every customer anf would not put anything on your car that I wouldn't put on mine..
 

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Orange, If it wasn't so darn cold out I would go out to the garage to look. It's just the standard Hankooks that came on the sedan. I used to have Hankook Ventus low pro's on a previous car and absolutely loved them so I thought these Hankooks would be just as good but they aren't....They seem fine on the dry/wet pavement but in 1" of fresh snow from our first snow, I had literally no traction. NONE! I thought it was just me so I had the fiance drive my car to work the next day and she had the same problem. I drove her car with the Nexen that same day to my job and really had no problem...I swapped out the Hankooks a few weeks ago and put on my used Goodyear Eagles and they have been fine, even in the 8" we got the other day...
 

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thats very unfortunate.. Not every tire will hold up as expected and every maker has a few bad ones.. I for one would much rather have the kooks than my crappy eagles lol.. I guess you just gotta find what works for you and go with it..
 

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OrangeCrush, I looked up the Hankook H727 since I liked what you said and noticed it has the T speed rating instead of the H which is higher. Would this affect the 100,000 mile warranty? I have been told that if you don't have at least the specified speed ratings that some tire manufacturers won't honor the warranty. Michelin specifically told me this on their 90,000 mile Hydroedge.
 

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If it affects the warranty then that's not my fault because those hankooks came stock on my car...and you're right. You have to go with what works for you and in this case the Goodyears for me are better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
so I had the fiance drive my car to work the next day a
LOL! I love it, you made the fiance drive your koup with no traction the next day.... :D I know that you didn't mean it that way, it just sounds funny!

BTW, I totally agree with you... The last thing I would want to buy is a set of new tires for a new car. But... to each his own I guess. This is my fourth brand new car and I've purchased many used before that! Like I said earlier, I've lived in both Ohio and Minnesota and my all-seasons have been more than adequate on my cars, all of which were front wheel drive. I also agree with Topspin and you that it's probably a good idea to have them if you have the disposable income to support them.

I've decided NOT to buy snows for the Koup, rather, I'll leave it at home when snow accumulates or is expected. I'll get by with the wifes AWD Sienna for those days... maybe I'll send the wife out in the Koup!!! LOL :eek:
 

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Haha...Yea of course I didn't mean it that way but given it's a new car and I had absolutely no traction I thought I was just going out of my mind, so I needed a second opinion. Her birthday was just a few days ago so she learned to drive in the winter and has no problem with the snow...She was amazed at how bad it was.

Yea I knew I needed tires but child support just went up a few months ago big time, plus 2 new cars, 2 college loans for her and I to pay, as well as a spring wedding coming up. Just don't have the money this year for the extra $500. Next winter I will have some new shoes on though! And like you mentioned I have never had a problem in the winter with all seasons so it was more of a gut check....

Yea send her out...would like to know what she thinks! haha :)
 

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If it affects the warranty then that's not my fault because those hankooks came stock on my car...and you're right. You have to go with what works for you and in this case the Goodyears for me are better.
I was referring to the H727 not the ones you might have. According to the Hankook site the OE tire would be the H426.
Welcome to Hankook Tire

The 15 is the T rated and the 16 is the H rated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Yea send her out...would like to know what she thinks! haha :)
I wouldn't dare! My wife isn't from snow country and is still scared after 3 years of living here! Every time it snows she starts wishing we were back in San Diego.

Besides she only knows two positions with the accelerator either foot off or foot all the way down on it! She'd kill herself in the winter in the Koup!
 

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I wouldn't dare! My wife isn't from snow country and is still scared after 3 years of living here! Every time it snows she starts wishing we were back in San Diego.

Besides she only knows two positions with the accelerator either foot off or foot all the way down on it! She'd kill herself in the winter in the Koup!
That's hilarious...Naw, my fiance loves the snow and knows how to drive in it too which is good for me cuz every so often I use her car when it's time to get mine to the garage for oil changes or what not. She knows I keep my cars immaculate so she is extra careful with what she is doing. But she did learn to drive in the snow so it's different for someone who doesn't know how....
 

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We got hit by 25cm of snow here over the weekend and with winter tires the Forte hasn't gotten stuck (not being an idiot helps!). You know it's bad when the traffic report says a plow is stuck... :eek:

But I agree with others who have posted about buying winter tires being a necessity for this car. And with those who are mad about having to put out the extra $$$ after buying a new car! :mad:
 
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