[gustden]

Knock Knock knock

Same issue. I have a 2011 2.0L, it's been knocking when cold since about 60K, but now doing it more consistently at ~80k. It should still be under warranty.

Had it at the dealership and asked them to listen to it, they wanted to charge me a $150 diagnostic fee. I asked them if that included scoping the cylinders for damage and they wanted an additional $330 to do that. They told me even if it is piston slap, my warranty would not be honored because I do my own oil changes and suggested if I had concerns about the engine I should sell it or trade it.

So, I scoped it myself, only one of the cylinders shows wear/scratches (pic attached). Not sure what to do now.

 

[joester]

Who made the claim that the car would go 300k miles?

Salesman offered that I should easily get 200K to 300K. I spoke at length with him the other day and he admtted the engines seemed to be expiring prematurely. He also added that any Kia's like mine traded in would go straight to the crusher. Not worth fixing for resale and not worth a darn as a trade-in since the Hyundai/Kia engine issue is well known in the used car arena.
What a shame. Excellent body, handles well, great gas mileage. Held up fabulously during our owning of the car.
Then the engine went and there is no economical answer except cut losses and look to another manufacturer for a daily driver.
Kia only adding a knock sensor and a code to cut the throttle in half is no way to address an issue they know about.

...so disappointed..

 

[Jalum]

The problem with this entire debate is that the ONLY people we hear anything from that have problems are the Canadians. The issue is this...the same links for the class action lawsuit are years old and nothing has been done about it and never will for our engines. On top of that most people won't admit that most of the failures on our first gens are due to operator error or errors on whoever did the oil change.

My engine blew because I wasn't paying attention and putting only 4qts of oil in my car and doing Tail of the Dragon runs every other weekend while using non OEM filters. Which only a couple of filters share the same relief valve technology as our OEM filters so that poses a problem. The reason why there is no recall on first gen engines is because most people just trade it in and never report on it. Or if they do report on it, it's because they bought their car used and say, "Just bought my 2012 Kia Forte EX a couple weeks ago and I've noticed a loud ticking noise from the engine. Is this a problem?" The vast majority of people who have complained about their cars having engine failures also bought it used. That means they have no clue how it was actually used or taken care of.

Stop worrying about the engines because if they ever do a recall for our first gens you WILL hear about it on every KDM page known and every forum.

 

[gustden]

The problem with this entire debate is that the ONLY people we hear anything from that have problems are the Canadians. The issue is this...the same links for the class action lawsuit are years old and nothing has been done about it and never will for our engines. On top of that most people won't admit that most of the failures on our first gens are due to operator error or errors on whoever did the oil change.

I purchased my car new, used kia filters w/ synthetic oil changed every 3750 miles. I believe it may be related to how cold of weather the car is used in. The first time I noticed serious knocking with my engine, was after sitting in -30 degree temps. The entire week, it didn't get above -10. It sounded like a diesel engine the way it was knocking.

Cold climate can be hell on modern engines, as many car makers have resorted to shorter piston skirts and looser piston tolerances to get every last bit of gas mileage from their engines. In -20 weather, the looser tolerance can cause pistons to flutter causing abnormal wear. Combine this with very thin piston walls, a very slight variation in the manufacturing can be catastrophic engine "flaw" when coupled with being drove in extremely cold weather over time.

 

[joester]

1. I am in the USA.
2. Bought mine new.
3. LOVED the car.
4. I have the engine knock and a notable loss in power.
5. It's just out of warranty.

Kia has dropped the ball magnificently with this engine and it appears will be allowed to ignore the complaints filed with the NHTSA and other sites.

My main gripe is that they want 2X what the car is worth to fix it, and that fix requires the unavailable engine block due to high demand - high demand because so many are failing.

 

[joester]

I believe it may be related to how cold of weather the car is used in. The first time I noticed serious knocking with my engine, was after sitting in -30 degree temps. The entire week, it didn't get above -10. It sounded like a diesel engine the way it was knocking.

Mine too, but not that cold (Upstate NY). Mine started in mid February and I wasn't sure I would make it to work.
Now I'm certain it will grenade leaving me stranded somewhere. No choice but to replace the vehicle and I'm sad to say it will not be another Kia.

 

[alexthefifth]

Definitely frustrated by Kia and the Kia apologists in this forum trying to use every excuse in the book to blame the owners. Somehow the Hondas and Toyotas are lasting much longer, despite all the same usage/service patterns. I guess they're just not as fragile/sensitive as the Kias. Next vehicle we purchase definitely won't be a Kia.

 

[kiaguy007]

..... My engine blew because I wasn't paying attention and putting only 4qts of oil in my car and doing Tail of the Dragon runs every other weekend while using non OEM filters. ....

It's nice to read an honest report from someone admitting that THEY might have been responsible for their own engine issue, and hats off to you for doing that. So many of these engine failure stories do not provide the maintenance history, or are from second owners where the full history is unknown. I'm not saying that every Theta MPI engine failure is due to poor maintenance, only that it's always going to be a case of maintenance being guilty until proven innocent.

And I agree completely about how bizarre it is that there are so many alleged engine issues coming from this Canadian FB group, but no significant number of reports anywhere else. They're having a huge group rant about the Forte, but how about the earlier Sportage, Sorento, Tucson, and Santa Fe? Those vehicles also used the Theta MPI, and there's nothing to be found about lots of Canadians having issues with any of those models. I was highly suspicious of this group right from the get go, and nothing has since happened to change my mind about it. And those Forte class action lawsuits which span 2011-2015 have been put into my trash can, where they rightfully belong.

Given the amount of time that's passed, I really don't believe there will be a recall on the Theta MPI. But I would be VERY happy if it ever turns out I'm wrong about that.

 

[joester]

I was highly suspicious of this group right from the get go, and nothing has since happened to change my mind about it. And those Forte class action lawsuits which span 2011-2015 have been put into my trash can, where they rightfully belong.
.

Lets see what happens when it's you instead.
I know I did regular maintenance. I know I took care of the car. I also know the engine dying was a design flaw and that I did nothing to influence it beyond simply driving it.
As pointed out by Gusten, maybe the colder climates has something to do with it. I know I allowed mine to warm in colder temperatures prior to driving it.

Maybe you live in a warmer climate where such issues may never appear. Hopefully for you that's the case. But referencing our issues as "rightful trash" is a bit offensive.

 

[joester]

Because this site is "highly suspicious", I decided to take a quick look at the NHTSA site.

Majority of the complaints are indeed from northern climates. Not all though. A couple from TX, one from GA and one from CA. So Gusten may be onto something with the colder climate reference. Maybe it's not a cause but a contributor to the engines failing.

Oh, and Kiaguy007, I truly hope you don't end up like those of us with the failing engines. Theres nothing worse than taking care of a vehicle well only to have the engine fail soon after the warranty expires and the cost to repair be 2X the car's maximum trade in value. I was told by the salesman who sold me the car that it would go to the crusher if I trade it in because of the engine issue. Not worth the effort to repair. Add to that the fact that the engines available today as replacements are identical to the original engine in design and build except the new ones have an additional knock sensor and a code that when thrown cuts the maximum throttle in half.
How's that for reassurance in a car brand? Recognize the issue but don't fix it.

As I've stated before, the rest of the car is great. Solid. Great handling on the road. Great gas mileage on trips. Just a lemon for an engine with what appears to be a very unpredictable reliability with the only cure being replacement and by the time you have a clue it's failing it's too late for any chance of an easy repair.

Funny how the Hyundai/Kia 2.0 and 2.4 liter engines are first on the list of engines "to avoid like the plague"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/research/seven-engines-to-avoid-like-the-plague/ar-AAvZ7VM#page=1

 

[kiaguy007]

Lets see what happens when it's you instead.
....

I understand how someone feels when it happens to them, and I fully acknowledge that it's possible that it will happen to my Forte as well. However, it's all about the numbers, and I have not seen a reliable source which shows a widespread, systemic engine issue with the Theta MPI, as there has been with the GDI/Turbo. I don't consider unidentified noise alone to automatically be an issue. And I don't consider the Canadian FB group to be a reliable source, which is also JMO.

... But referencing our issues as "rightful trash" is a bit offensive.

My comment about trash was clearly specifically directed at the lawsuits, not 'our issues'. So because people are misstating and misrepresenting what I write, this will be the last time I post any more back-and-forth on this thread. I feel bad for those having engine problems, and wish them the best of luck.

 

[Jalum]

Definitely frustrated by Kia and the Kia apologists in this forum trying to use every excuse in the book to blame the owners. Somehow the Hondas and Toyotas are lasting much longer, despite all the same usage/service patterns. I guess they're just not as fragile/sensitive as the Kias. Next vehicle we purchase definitely won't be a Kia.

I'm not an apologist. Trust me when I say that the majority of people who fuck up their car and cause issues don't want to fess up to it because of embarrassment and ridicule from some people. That being said and the fact that if you search on this entire forum from 2009-2015 there are only a handful of posts about the engines going out in some way; and this is just a small fraction of the total amount of people who have an account on here.

Kia has already recalled a bunch of vehicles with engine issues from design so it's not like they are lacking in that area. So it's completely asinine to assume that most of the engine failures aren't due to operator or maintenance error. Until you or anyone else can find indisputable proof of the engines going bad due to poor design or improper assembly it will continue to be mostly operator or maintenance error.

ALSO. The only way that a company can do a recall is if the cars are brought into a dealership and are diagnosed with a problem and then a certain percentage has to have the same issue to do a recall. And how many people really want to go or actually do go to a dealership to get their oil changed or anything of that sort? Not as many as you think. And unless you have receipts of every job ever done on the car no dealership is going to warranty your car unless that dealership did all the work.

For the issue of waiting months for a new motor...that's because they don't make them any more. They get them from a junkyard and have to refurbish them. So when the bill comes out to $5000+ for a new engine from Kia with a 2+ month wait time just know you can get a used motor from a junkyard that more than likely doesn't have any issues for $800-$1600, depending on model, and get it installed within a day or pay a shop to do the labor for less than $1500 if they know what they are doing. Kia engines are abundant because of how many have been wrecked. 2.4s are harder because far less SX models were made which result in a higher cost for them.

 

[joester]

For the issue of waiting months for a new motor...that's because they don't make them any more. They get them from a junkyard and have to refurbish them.

I know mine was well cared for, yet if failed anyway.
You can doubt all you want. I know different.
If I even had driven it hard I would not be as upset, knowing I had contributed.

You do bring up a good question though... If the only replacements are rebuilt ones from J yards, then why isn't that offered? Rebuilding the original?

Used engine - Nope. The dealer had a car in for the knock, installed a used engine and it was worse than the original one. Owner was added to the wait list for the replacement. If I decided to go that route, it would only be to dump the car immediately since I cannot trust the engine, especially one with an unknown history.

 

[alexthefifth]

As per the facebook group, the original defective engine block is part number 259y22Gh00

The revised replacement is 242y22gh00a

Kia is unable to keep up with the demand for the new part number as there is a severe shortage. As a result many dealers are offering the remanufactured original part number. Often these are taken from wrecks etc. Most of the people that accepted the remanufactured engines reported the problem to still be present (or come back shortly after installation).

Do not accept a remanufactured block. Push your dealer for the new revision

You can find your engine part number here:

I strongly recommend anyone interested to join the facebook group as it is *very* active (dozens of posts every day), with lots of great advice, i.e.:

Their goal is still to replace strictly what absolutely necessary and that in almost every case, they go back to the old pieces. They do not replace the chain of distribution (timing chain), which in my opinion is debatable when we know the difficulty to replace it once the engine is in place. As long as you have the engine open, why not replace it and have tranquility for a good piece of time. On the other hand if the client asks and pays, they will replace the channel (chain).

If you don't speak French then use the Google Chrome translate feature

It is also recognized that the same problem of "cleaning" (and not pistons or cylinders) appeared on the 1.8 l, the 2 L and the 2.4 l, engines that we find on all the Kia range, and not only on the (Forte); at Hyundai also by the way.

 

[alexthefifth]

Yet another day, yet another group of Kia/Hyundai cars added to the recall list:

from https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/04/...isks-recalls-20k-models-in-north-america.html

Hyundai runs into more engine fire risks, recalls 20K models in North America
...
The group behind the petition for Hyundai and Kia is the Center for Auto Safety, and the group’s executive director was quick to jump on the news that the automaker was issuing a recall related to engine fires.

Jason Levine, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, said that this recall “raises the question of whether we are even beyond the tip of the iceberg” with fires connected to Hyundai and Kia.

“How many times are we going to hear from either Hyundai or Kia that these circumstances are unique to a particular model and then have another recall or fire situation announced weeks or months later?” Levine said.

A.P. reports that Hyundai and Kia have recalled about 2.4 million vehicles since 2015 for issues related to engine failure and fires.

“The evidence is now clear – Hyundai and Kia should have acted to recall these vehicles far earlier,” Levine said in his statement.

“We challenge Kia and Hyundai to use this moment to figure out what’s causing these fires instead of pretending these engine issues can be addressed with knock sensors and forcing cars into limp home mode. If they won’t -- NHTSA must.”

^^ That news came on Wednesday, this news came on Monday:

US to probe thousands of fires in Hyundai, Kia vehicles: https://www.tnp.sg/news/world/us-probe-thousands-fires-hyundai-kia-vehicles

 

[alexthefifth]

Not all of these are the same problem, but I found this scene rather comical in the 2.4L forum -- these are the latest threads:

 

[alexthefifth]

...I was highly suspicious of this group right from the get go, and nothing has since happened to change my mind about it. And those Forte class action lawsuits which span 2011-2015 have been put into my trash can, where they rightfully belong...

The Forte class action lawsuit is still ongoing, awaiting a judge to be appointed. Likely considered low priority because there hasn't been a direct death attributed to this problem yet (thankfully)

 

[gustden]

I was wondering if anyone has rebuilt one of these engines? If so, why is kia replacing the engine instead of fixing them?

A set of DNJ .20 over-sized pistons and rings can be had for less than $150 on amazon. Might be a fun summer project.

 

[joester]

I wondered the same thing. Bore, sleeve (maybe), and resized pistons. That doesn't address the hint I got from the service guy when he referenced replacing the "worn out" oil pump while he was creating a list of parts to provide a quote.
I've been looking everywhere I can for anything on the pumps failing or decreasing efficiency and causing the problem but I have yet to see it anywhere.

 

[gustden]

I was wondering if anyone has rebuilt one of these engines? If so, why is kia replacing the engine instead of fixing them?

A set of DNJ .20 over-sized pistons and rings can be had for less than $150 on amazon. Might be a fun summer project.

I decided to trade my 2011 2.0 with 80K miles. :crying2: It's been a great car for 8 years, not a single issue other than the loud knocking when cold that started ~60K miles ( and got progressively worse). It was nearly a constant knock even when warm when I traded it. It might have lasted a long time, but being a former mechanic I just cringed every time I started it and heard the clanking.

I don't fault Kia, as every car company known has had a bad batch of engines now and then. Just unfortunate mine was one of them. All the other Kia cars I have owned were great cars and lasted forever. Wishing all the best of luck with your Kia, I know I miss mine already!